Here’s another interesting little snippet of co-operation. An RNZAF PV-1 flown by F/O John Coom and crew left Munda on the 28th of January 1944 carrying some coast-watchers aboard to help them pinpoint a Japanese bivouac area at the Mulambull River, Northern Choiseul. They did so, and the next morning the same PV-1 crew lead a second Ventura flown by Ft Lt Ken King and a number of US P-39 Airacobras on a combined bombing and strafing raid. The coast-watchers were aboard for the strike and the target and several others that coast-watchers had pinpointed were destoryed satisfactorily.

I never said the Americans got lost all the time. I said that US Commanders felt that due to several incidents where their forces had become lost (remember they were usually flying home in darkness!) that they asked for navigational escorts. Simple as that.

I have been told this by people who were involved, as I am writing a book on the RNZAF General Reconnaissance and Bomber Reconnaissance squadrons. I will try to find written eveidence of dates when Avengers were escorted.

By PNG I assume you mean New Britain?

Great shots there Mortmer.

I suspect the Venturas in the last photo are RNZAF ones..occasionally they accompanied the Marine PBJs on missions and there are some photos of them in formation with some PBJs during a raid on Rabaul.

They are certainly RNZAF Venturas, and the word ‘occasionally’ should probably be substituted with the word ‘frequently’. Often our Venturas and US Mitchells acted as a wing on bombing raids against Rabaul. On other occasions a couple of our PV-1’s followed the US bombers to act as SAR for downed bomber cews. They also acted as navigation aircraft for US Avenger forces as they had trouble finding their way home too often. And on a few raids our Venturas went in with the Mitchells and heavy bombers to act purely as fighter escort believe it or not! They were jacks of all trades.

As VMB 433 was based at Green Island then possibly the Venturas are from one of our squadrons also based at Green Island.

Mark12 wrote:

The aircraft look ‘new’ and do not seem to be carrying any unit markings.

Did RAAF aircraft usually carry unit markings in the operational area? I’m not sure if they did or didn’t. But I know that RNZAF aircraft didn’t as the aircraft were maintained by Servicing Units and were only loaned to squadrons (which were bodies of men, not aircraft). This was so squadrons could rotate aircrew in and out of the forward area with around three months there, while SU’s could keep their experienced ground staff there for much longer, and the aircraft remained on site when a squadron left rather than ferrying home while others came forward. So no unit markings were used. Also sometimes two squadrons used the same aircraft from one SU. Did the RAAF use that system or did they stick to the more traditional RAF style where ground and aircrews and aircraft all stayed together in one unit?

By the way that Mosquito features in a photo in the latest issue of Flightpath magazine too.

it would have been nice to film it but acoustics and light wasn’t great for that sort of thing

sorry you live way out there………it must be terrible living in such a lovely place, swop?

philip

Swap? No fear mate, NZ’s the greatest country in the world. I don’t want to leave.

I’ve never been involved in any sort of wreck recovery and probably never will be, however a few thoughts:

Can a few corroded lumps of engine and airframe portray the history of a particular type or airframe to any great effect?

A good question. In some cases I think yes. After the war there was virtually nothing left in the world of the Vickers Vildebeest and Vincent bombers. But in the 1970’s and since then some amazing finds have been made of parts and airframes that were buried in dumps and from crash sites that dedicated wreckologists went to the trouble of digging up and recovering. Since then some of the parts from the six or so different aircraft recovered in various states have made their way to Don Subritzky’s collection, and others to the RNZAF Museum. From these rusty bent lumps of airframes and engines both a Vincent and a Vildebeest are being slowly restored back to existence.

I talked with one of the dedicated volunteers at the RNZAF Museum at Wigram about the restoration of their Vilde, and I’d assumed that basically it was mostly new material based on coyping bits recovered. However he assured me most of the beautiful airframe they’re working on was in fact original material that had been cleaned up, straightened and repainted. It is amazing. The Subritzky Vincent is equally amazing. If not for those people who sought out, found and dug those wrecks, these types would be extinct. They also rescued several Hnds and other types at the time and we hope to see some of them flying someday.

Is the recovery of parts useful to the restoration movement in that it may provide patterns or templates where no parts, or possibly even drawings, exist? (Thinking about extinct types such as Manchester, Stirling, Whitley et al.)

I’m sure the answer is yes in regards to several restorations. Even where there are drawings and others flying, etc, restorers are still taking on wrecks from PNG and Russia, etc to rebuild too. There’s a P-47 in Australia under rebuild to fly that was buried under a landslide for several years after first crashing in the jungle.

With the massive upsurge in historic aircraft which are now airworthy, is Aviation Archaeology as relevant now as it was when there were fewer aircraft airworthy or restored?

I would think it is more relevant now as so many more workshops have the abiloty, technology and financial backing to actually do something with wrecks now. In the olden days some wrecks have been recovered and sat derelict and rusting, or worse still, crapped. But today things are different and a newly restored aircraft could have been a total wreck dug out of a swamp just two years ago.

The archeologists/wreck recoverers have contributed lots to the current warbird scene. Take the P-39 that TFC fly, that was a werck recovered from the jungles of PNG and sat derelict in NZ for years. Now it is pristine. The P-38 ‘Glacier Girl’ was an incredible recovery story, and is now flying. The Dauntless and Hellcat wrecks dredged out of the Great Lankes now fill gaps in museums and flying collections.

It’s wreck recoveries that are a driving force in the flying warbird industry, from P-40’s to Spitfires to Hurricanes to all sorts. And I guess too recovering crashed and dumped aircraft and getting them restored has actually helped to halt the slow decline in numbers of warbirds as idiots have cut them up to make racers and then crashed them, or simply crashed them on the egit airshow circuit.It used to seem like every time one got flying another crashed. But now numbers are growing. The flying P-40 and Spitfire populations are booming, most of the new ones being ex-wrecks.

Another aspect of the archeology side I have seen is that family members sometimes find some sort of closure in it. There was a case on TV here a few years back where a kiwi policeman took three months off work to travel to Holland to be involved in a dig on his uncle’s No. 75 Sqn Stirling. The family had never had closure and he wanted to go and see what he could. In the dig they pulled up practically the entire aircraft and a lot of it was to go to some museum I believe. They never found his uncle’s body as such but they did find his tunic pocket and his wristwatch and a few of his items, which the Dutch Air Force presented to the policeman. They were able to basically determine what happened to the Stirling and he was able to say goodbye to his uncle on behalf of his wider family at a ceremony, etc. For many this sort of thing is important.

The case too of the dig on the Spitfire to try to determine who shot down Douglas Bader is another angle of what can be done I guess. More of a historic forensic examination to determine causes and effects, perhaps dispel myths and prove theories in certain cases.

So I guess whether people like it or not there are certainly some very good reasons for digging up and recovering old aircraft. Just as there are with other types of archeology.

Last year I was struck by lightning. Bit of a shock I can tell you.