JwcookNeedlessly huh.. well with the last five years containing 2 years of delay…!
This means at the current rate of delay the program will deliver in 2019:rolleyes: this sort of messes with IoC in 2018, but the IoC is not that important because the present schedule has them declaring IoC before development has been completed:confused:. who needs IoC anyway, just move what you originally wanted in IoC to the right… and accept a lower spec.. I’ll warrent that little caveat will be around in 2012-2013.
And finally because each year of delay pushes up the price, not everyone believes the Dutch price:D.
Simple question to all the partner nations – at what price is the JSF unaffordable and at what time is it too late?
These are the questions that should be asked now, because that wern’t asked 5 years ago..
BTW in 2020 the JSF will be competing with UCAV’s which will do the job cheaper and without a squishy thing up the front.
Cheers
JwcookIt matters to me because I knew the JSF wasn’t going to be ready, and I knew the JSF wasn’t going to be $35m.
I strongly objected to the decision that the competitive tender and evaluation for the next RAAF fighter was to be curtailed for a paper airplane with nothing more than a powerpoint presentation.
If the present schedule is kept we may get our jets in time, however that looks a less than promising if the track record is taken into account.
Now the jets are going to be delayed again, this has cost implications, the number of jets required is supposed to be 100, now this looks less than likely.
So yes I do have an interest in this program, it does get a little tiring when people not only ignore the obvious, but actively argue against it.
So in short don’t expect the full version of JSF in 2018, don’t expect anywhere near 100 airframes, and don’t expect it to compete with UCAV’s.
Cheers
JwcookTwo official sources have now confirmed that initial operational test and evaluation of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will not be completed before November 2015, 13 months later than the previous schedule. That schedule itself was adopted less than two years ago, in early 2008, so the program has now slipped two years in five since 2005, when the previous schedule was set.
Source ARES
So anyone spruking “its never going to be a two year delay” has only 11 months spare to play with now…:eek:
Cheers
JwcookNone of which is ANY evidence that the program WILL suffer ANOTHER 2 YEARS of delay & associated cost overruns.
PFCEM – once again exactly which schedule are you talking about?
JwcookNone of which is ANY evidence that the program WILL suffer ANOTHER 2 YEARS of delay & associated cost overruns.
So everyone is clear – exactly what schedule are you talking about?
Jwcookjohn, we are getting the f-35, we arent getting the typhoon
Well that is the current plan… I thought that decision was premature due to the immature status of the JSF. I see it following the F-111 troubled history for entry into service.
Long delays before entry into service and even longer to get it up to full capability.
By the time the JSF is up to speed I think it will need other types to compliment it. (c2025)
Cheers
JwcookAnd just where is ANYBODY saying ANY of that garbage you just accused them of saying?
Errrr.. LOL – You did…:D
The JSF IS NOT in trouble
đ
Wow you even used uppercase!!! or how about this for your poor track record on all things JSF.
In fact it is a fairly common theme that JET’s âworst-caseâ projections are for pretty much 2 year delays accross the board when in reality the program is experiencing closer to 6 month delays.
Subsequently less than a month later we saw the JET estimations were, if anything, optimistic.:D
Typical BS. Rather than admit that the problems that the program IS having are NOT out of the ordinary NOR unexpected for such a large & ambitious program NOR so bad that the program is in actual peril you make up complete & utter BS
So Typical made up complete BS huh!!! – Well if they were “expected” why has the scheduled repeatedly changed?. Surely an “expected” delay would have been factored into the schedule, are you accusing LM of lying or incompetance?.
Come on admit it.. how many schedules has the JSF had… I lost count after three… and even the latest schedule is behind and thats only a few months old, I wager theres more rescheduling to be done for those “NOR unexpected” problems.
The JSF program manager is sacked, and you assert that there’s nothing going on!!.:rolleyes:
NOBODY has said about “everything is ontrack and under budget”.
Errr… LOL – well actuall you have said exactly that :-
LRIP contracts are ALREADY BELOW projections!
Here’s the real story, and I bet he’s in a better position to comment than you.
US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has sacked the general in charge of the F-35 project, saying the plane had a “troubling performance record” and was beset by cost overruns and delays.
“The progress and performance of the F-35 over the past two years has not been what it should,” Mr Gates said in Washington. “A number of key goals and benchmarks were not met.”
“when things go wrong, people will be held accountable”.
I think that neatly sums up the present situation, and the funny thing is, I find it hard to reconcile to your rosie view..
Cheers
JwcookLet’s stick to the topic. Cola posted the clip with F 35 flying along the F 16 both in AB and his deduction was that, contrary to what test pilot(s) say, the F 35 need AB when the chasing F 16 do. I thing he is wrong
Delays, cost increases are normal for every fighter program as big and ambitious as the F 35. And they have nothing to do with needing or not needing the AB.
My apologies I thought this was a JSF news and discussion thread!.:rolleyes:
JwcookOnce again, the use of the AB by the F 35 could be very well dictated by the test flight profile, not by the need to use it.
Once again the JSF weight may very well be dictated by the performance parameters, not by the need to shed weight.;)
The one variable that is ‘mobile’ is performance, especially the software and its ability to perform certain functions, this is where the future savings will be made as it tried to avoid the death spiral, just watch out for it.
I’m amazed by the continued upbeat outpourings that come from the JSF apologists, if they could just say the program is in trouble but they hope it can be turned around then I think we could all agree with that.
but despite the cosy increases, the delays, the restructuring, the sackings, they continue to assert everything is ontrack and under budget!!!.
Something has to give in this program – whats your guess as to what it will be.?,
Cheers
JwcookThis was from 2006
In October 2004, the Defense Acquisition Board signed off on more than 500 recommendations, officially making the STOVL weight loss attack team a success.
In eight months, the Lockheed engineers cut a total of 2,700 pounds from the F-35B. The effort also trimmed 1,300 pounds from the other variants. Comfortable with that legacy, SWAT faded, with accolades, into company history, but an estimated 20 ideas a week still turn up in the Weight Improvement Program office.
Design and assembly changes, mostly related to the SWAT recommendations, have cost about $4.8 billionâpart of a $6.2 billion replanning to accommodate the additional design cycle required to make the improvements. The replanning forced an 18-month slip in F-35 deliveries. According to a 2006 Government Accountability Office report, since inception, the development costs of the JSF program have increased 84 percent and its timeline slipped by about five years. The STOVLâs final delivery deadline has been extended two years, to 2012.
When AA-1, the first CTOL F-35, rolled out of the assembly building on a gray, misty morning last February, it featured none of the SWAT-era optimizations. The weight of this F-35A is greater than what was originally projected, but not so high that the aircraft does not meet key performance parameters, Lockheed officials say. The margins would be very tightâthey are not wide, even with the redesignâbut it would have made it. Every F-35A that follows will be lighter.
âWeightâs going to be a focus item for this program for the rest of its life,â notes Enewold. He adds that until flight tests are completed, he will worry that the diet has removed some of the aircraftâs âgood weightââthe structure that makes the airplane durable. A former Navy pilot, Enewold knows well the punishment an aircraft suffers during carrier operations.
Source
http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/weight_watchers.html?c=y&page=8
Cheers
JwcookSome aircraft have automated defensive responses, the Typhoon will display a vector to fly and a countdown timer to the next turn this manoeuvres the aircraft in the best possibly way and the best possible time to avoid the incoming, this works in conjunction with jamming, chaff, flares, Jaff, and the towed decoy.
I don’t think the autoejection is a current option on the DASS;)
JwcookI am pretty sure YOU were one of those ‘singing the chorus’ that the F-35 sucks because it can only carry four AAMs internally.
I’d be interested in where you think the JSF sucks!
Areas like
workshare
Tech transfer
export versions
performance
soverignty issues
cost
delivery schedule ie LM’s past and present performance and inability to deliver on price and on time or even near time – near price.
or your take on how you think the project is progressing.
If you could answer these without the need to rebutt others assertions I think we could get a clearer understanding of what you actually think, As a JSF apologist, your take on these issues would be most illuminating!.
Its always better to get the negatives from your side of the fence.
Cheers
Jwcookhttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/business/03fighter.html?hpw
Gates Tries to Get F-35 Program Back on Course
the program was running six months behind the latest schedule.
Mr. Gates also said he knew of âno insurmountable problems, technological or otherwise, with the F-35.â But he added a year to the development phase of the program, and slowed plans to increase production, to give the company a chance to catch up..
âour intent to outperformâ projections for the program, enabling the government to buy more planes than it expected to over the next few years.
Then again Gates was praising the JSF a few months ago when he knew of no problems in the program, LM was full of confidence too.
So forgive me if I take a pinch (Shovel full) of salt with any of their comments.
Cheers
JwcookFORT WORTH, Texas, Feb. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ — A Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) F-35B Lightning II short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) stealth fighter today became the fifth F-35 to begin flight operations.
You can read the rest of the press release from the link provided if so desired but it is the 1st three paragraphs which are important.
Wow Thats good news – does this mean the JSF program has turned the corner and is now right on track.. I guess it was the correct decision to Can Heinz.. (thanks to Mr Sweetman for that excellent little pun).
The more I read about this program the more worried I am of it spiralling into a complete failure rather than the shambles its in now.
The warning signs are now coming thick and fast that even the most vocal of JSF supporter can’t put a positive spin on events.
There are at least two reports coming in the near future which will not be pleasant reading, and I expect number reductions are not too far off as well.
Cheers
JwcookI love Legs, But cant decide if its the left leg or right leg or something in between:D
Cheers
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