JwcookDoesn’t provide a Name of the Typhoon Pilot. Just that he is quoted by the Author of the Article. Which, I would add is hardly friendly to the F-35. Plus, the same pilot that is countering Mr. Flynn has no access (again) to the F-35. So, he is making judgments without facts. Yet, Mr Flynn is a highly experienced TEST Pilot with extensive experience in the Hornet, Typhoon, Raptor, and F-35 to name a few. Question does the other Typhoon have experience in any of the other type? (except the Typhoon???) Personally, I have my doubts. Yet, we clearly know which one is the best to judge the F-35 true capabilities.
There are a number of (ex)Typhoon pilots who are with LM on the F-35 program.
JwcookActually original UK Typhoon plan was 250 airframes back in EAP days, then 232, then 180 and now down to 160 with only 107 to be retained after 2020. Cold War put an end to the high numbers.
I suspect F-35 numbers will be higher than 48 but certainly not over 100 and certainly not original 150 and 138 figures originally quoted.
The original 250 was 20 years ago, way before any production aircraft, I’d willing to concede the 180 figure to compare the F-35 at a similar state of development.
A few years back there was some information that gave good grounds for the numbers, There were only ~70 UK serial numbers allocated for the F-35, and while the serials remain, the numbers mentioned for the new carriers will be 48 with the possible attrition reserve removed and a contingency plan to buy only if needed to take advantage of cheap later build prices, so don’t hold your breath for #50 F-35.
JwcookThe big difference is Bill Flynn has had access to both the Typhoon and the F-35. The other pilot has not………..his experience is solely with the Typhoon! So, who is better to judge??? Thank You for reinforcing my point.;)
You might want to check who the Typhoon pilot is first 🙂
JwcookFunny, on how 3 out of 4 of the Typhoon Partners are going to purchase F-35’s. While the former will be ending production! If, the Typhoon was really more capable than the F-35. Then those countries wouldn’t purchase it. I would also add that a recent high level RAF Officer. Said the ideal situation would be a all 5th Generation Fleet. Yet, the reality was that the RAF would going to have to live with a mixed force of Typhoons and F-35’s because of funding issues.
Did I add that Tranche 1 Typhoons are already going to be retired……..
Well the reason why is simple, when it was promised it was a $35m dollar super plane, several countries invested heavily on the 3000+ production run The UK was the biggest put in $2 billion.
Now the 150 F-35 aircraft the UK planned on is now down to ~48 airframes a 68% reduction
The number of Typhoons the UK planned on was 160, Now its 140 a 12.5% reduction
So which one is the obvious superfluous asset
Did I add that around 400 F-35 will be retired early as they are not production standard..
JwcookIn some ways the F-35 is more capable than the F-22. Especially, in the realm of Situational Awareness and overall Sensor Fusion. Which, is a “Game Changer” in Modern Aerial Combat. As for the Typhoon against the F-22. It is possible the Typhoon could win occasionally against the Raptor. Yet, the odds are not good. As for exercises between the latter two. The ROE are usually in favor of the weaker opponent (i.e. Typhoon) to make it a equal contest. Otherwise the Raptor would just go in and kill the other side every time. Which, is hardly a learning experience for either.
Be fair Scooter setting them up for a BVR fight will favour the F-22, WVR its roughly even (HMS excepted), and air to ground it favours the Typhoon.
In a conflict a Typhoon is the much more rounded opponent and the f-22 is more the one trick gold plated pony.
Typhoon vs the F-35 will be interesting – the high and fast Typhoons will not be easy targets for the F-35 15,000 feet below.
Typhoon has the ability to break off when needed the F-35 doesn’t.
The missile engagement zones will be disproportionately bigger for the Typhoon with AMRAAM 120C and that will increase markedly with the introduction of Meteor.
JwcookFunny, one of the best Canadian Test Pilots with Experience in both the Typhoon and F-35. Wouldn’t agree that the Typhoon would be the better choice………..of course he has actually flown both!
I assume your talking about Billie Flynn the test pilot currently employed by Lockheed Martin 😮 Is he totally impartial do you think?, I think he has a job to do and that job is to talk up the JSF and it looks like he’s being economical with the truth.;)
Unsurprisingly those claims he makes are strongly disputed by many other more impartial sources, including Raptor pilots and one veteran Super Hornet test pilot with thousands of hours in that aircraft who said:-
“These claims are technically inaccurate from my point of view as a professional test pilot”.
I wouldn’t be using this as an example of the JSF superiority from a current LM test pilot who flew a development Typhoon in 2003.
Billie flynn quote:-
‘Darth Vader never had a helmet like this,’ says Billy Flynn,
I guess Darths helmet worked!!
cheers
JwcookNobody can predict tomorrow………All we know is the threat will likely come from an unpredictable direction.
In that case the Typhoon is perfect for the threat….
it can get there faster and has better range.
JwcookAny threat that may include the PAK-FA, J-20, or J-31. (and the list could grow)
Where they going to launch from?
JwcookWhat credible conflict that could threaten Canada would be better served by the JSF over the Typhoon??.
what exact scenario?
JwcookOld? They’ll be younger in 2016 than other types when a MLU starts being planned! Retiring them as tool old would be a criminal waste.
The preference is to sell them, upgrading them comes from the budget to purchase tranche 3a or even 3b.
its simple economics, if you have little money then some difficult decisions have to be made, look at the number of JSF the UK will really purchase… ~48 down from 150…
Now those sort of numbers are news, £2 billion just in development and only buying 48.. wow.
Meanwhile back to SK, both F15 and Typhoon are technically acceptable to SK, SK is looking for almost any excuse to purchase what i think was their initial choice the F15, choosing to pick on the twin seater numbers is laughable when the f-35 was included in the first place as it only exists as a single seater.
Looks like someone has been changing the rules halfway through and Eurofighter GmbH will notice that sort of thing, so lawyers are now sharpening pencils, and SK has to find another reason to chose its aircraft of choice :-).
As to speculation on the future plans then the Gulf states do look promising for Eurofighter GmbH and if media reports are to be believed then success here would certainly open up all sorts of opportunities, even places far away from hot and sandy.
What interests me is the future possibilities if Typhoon is selected, the range of weapons available would be enormous and could rival the F4 Phantom as a successful program..
Jwcookyes but if you look closely at those 7
UK – f-35 user and major contributor to typhoon. also major F-35 partner. trying desperately to get rid of its existing aircraft.
Italy – f-35 user, will use it for a2g
Spain – f-35 user but too poor to fund further integration on their own
Germany – your hope lies there but they are comfortable with their Tornado and they lack political will to do t on their own
Saudi Arabia – many other aircraft already with good A2G capabilities
Austria – they dont want A2G capabilities
Oman – will consider it only if some one else pays the cost
UK- Bright Adder feeding into Captor E, Not desperate to get rid of tranche 1 aircraft, but are now old and start to be retired in 2016…. however it would be better to sell them off, JSF numbers are tumbling smaller than 50 by some accounts.
Italy – is a basket case, the JSF is more at risk there.
Spain – is also poor.
Germany – will commit to enhancements.
Saudi Arabia – have funded and already started integration of AtoG weapons on Typhoon with more to come very very soon (watch this space), and may go for yet another 48-72 airframes
Austria – will get what they pay for.. nothing.
Oman – will picky back off of the Saudi additions.
Possibly
The Gulf states may move as a block to give them efficiencies of scale with a single type.
The UAE will be the decider if they go with Typhoon, the case for the rest of the gulf states to follow will be very strong this will be a “game changer”
Bahrain 12
UAE 60 – will want additional weapons and are willing to pay
Kuwait 28
Qatar 24 to 36
Other less likely or longer term
Malasyia – 18
South Korea – looking for any reason to kick Typhoon out of competition and get the usual US offering!!
India – would need Dassault to try hard to mess this one up too, but the contract isn’t signed yet, when most expected it would have been done and dusted..
So not quite the dire situation your painting is it!.
cheers
JwcookA. Original orders:
USAF has decided to upgrade all of its 220-plus F-15Es and to keep using them through 2035, while the four European airforces have decided to cancel Tranche IIIB and to get rid of their own Tranche I ASAP.
And even so the size of the Eurofighter order is several times larger.
B. Exporting orders:
The Strike Eagle family has already gotten 260-plus exporting orders from the four different foreign airforces in the past 15 years, while the Eurofighter gets less than 100 exporting orders from the three different foreign airforces, and 24 of the exporting orders are just directly from RAF’s orders to RSAF without compensation.
Lets see the numbers for typhoon after 15 years!!, 100 orders in 7 years isn’t bad, with the very real potential to reach another 150+ in the next couple of years.
C. AESA radar:
The Strike Eagle family has already two kinds of productional choice right now (APG-63v3 and APG-82v1), while the Eurofighter is still waiting and wishing that somebody will pay the god damned prcie to make the productional CAPTOR-E become the truth one day……
Two inferior radars compared to the Captor E, it will happen.
D. A2G capability, 2013:
* Strike Eagle Family:
JASSM, KEPD-350, Delilah, Popeye, SLAM-ER/AGM-84 Block II HARPOON Missiles, AGM-88B HARM Missiles, JSOW family, JDAM family, SDB, USA/Israel LGBs from 500 Ib to 4,500 Ib class …….* Eurofighter:
1. LGBs….More LGBs……More and more LGBs……….Can you just introduce something new other than LGBs !!!???
2. It will be as capable as Rafale and Strike Eagle in A2G area one day !!! (Unrealized advertisement from 2006 to 2013).Potential needs truly investment, not empty declaration, to become the reality one day.
The Typhoon weapons integration program is gearing up faster than many realise, it should be an interesting 18 months ahead. 🙂
Your talking about an aircraft that hasn’t flown yet, remember the “simple” up size the Superhornet suffered from, the wing drop problems! the F15ROK is canted tails, fly-by-wire controls, and digital EW equipment.
I would expect the usual buffet problems and structural alterations to cost far more than budgeted for.
But if thats what ROK wants then that is what it will get, on capability most impartial observers would choose Typhoon over any F15 variant.
JwcookIf the swiss weren’t particularly impressed by the captor in 2008 it’s probably because it was not that different from the APG-73 and perhaps even lagging in the ECCM area compare to the F-18C radar ?
I know how it differed way back then … in 2008 the Captor-M enjoyed a ~30- 40% range advantage to the APG73 and could do multiple track.
JwcookIf you got a better one, I am all ears..
I have a couple :-
Captor M is like Concord, an older generation that excels in some areas against the latest offerings which excel in other areas.
Captor M is like the (karate kid, Star trek, Playstation, etc) the original was much better than the higher budget newer version for various reasons.
Captor M is like a Valve Amplifier, it sounds better than transistor amps, but is an older tech..
Some times the newer versions have higher spec in some areas but lose in other areas in i.e. Captor M case it is scan angles that only a swashplated design can compensate for….
JwcookYes it should be all ok, the software is in layers much like windows, the front end of the AESA having the algorithms in wrappers and the back end of the radar getting passed data it recognises, which it passes onto the attack computer as normal.
Some differences will be in the data link for mid course corrections for Meteor etc.
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