JwcookBAE said talks with the four countries involved had dragged on over what systems were needed to enhance its ground-attack capabilities
This is the interesting part, I wonder what the stumbling blocks are?, which partners are pushing for what, and why?.
The UK seems to have a pretty effective ground attack capability with Jags/Harriers/Tornado and Storm shadow.
Someone is upping the specifications without upping the price for a reason, anyone care to guess- export or capability change?
A report from the Guardian..
With some relativly good news!!
Analysts are widely expecting the government to cut the 88 Eurofighters it plans to buy in the third tranche, which consists of a total of 236 jets.
The company said today that it was continuing to negotiate with the government for that number of aircraft. Group communications director Hugh Colver said: “We are negotiating for 236 aircraft and no one is going to change that now, I believe.”
Source :- http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1157099,00.html
Interesting…
Cheers
JwcookItalian First Service Aircraft news SNIPPED…
Thanks Steve!!
As above… I must be getting too slow 😉
Cheers
JwcookBritain, Germany could reduce order for Eurofighter: report
Just a few more rumours…
http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/040220204302.pekjmid9
Cheers
JwcookEurofighter partners agree new formation
The three European defence companies building the troubled Eurofighter combat jet have agreed to a shake-up of their consortium, including the naming of a new chief executive, in order to jump-start negotiations for a second batch of 236 fighters.
The three companies – BAE Systems of the UK; Alenia Aerospazio of Italy; and the Franco-German group EADS – will name Aloysius Rauen, head of EADS’s military aircraft division, as Eurofighter GmbH’s new chief executive from May 1.
Mr Rauen will take the reins from Filippo Bagnato, former chief operating officer at Alenia, who will have held the job for less than two years. Officials involved with the move said the appointment of Mr Rauen was less a verdict on Mr Bagnato, who will return to a senior post at Alenia, than an effort to give the position more stature.
“We need more weight at the top, so it had to be one of the senior guys at one of the companies,” said a senior executive.
When Mr Bagnato was appointed, however, Eurofighter touted his arrival as part of a similar move to strengthen the consortium, since like Mr Rauen he was a senior official at a partner company. Although the chief Eurofighter job has rotated with regularity, his departure could signal dissatisfaction with the progress of negotiations for a new order of aircraft.
The three companies and the four nations buying the fighter jet – Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain – are locked in talks that were supposed to be completed by the end of 2003 to begin production of a second tranche of Eurofighters.
JwcookI’ve no doubt that they can play all sorts of games with numbers, Still there should have been a few come off the production lines since Nov 2003, one must assume there is some sort of delay between finished and delivered to the RAF that the other partners seem not to be suffeing from (this is purely a subjective feeling on my part, but does seem to be supported by the few facts we have).
BTW Eurofighter has had a big shake up!!! I’ll try to find a source…
Cheers
JwcookEurofighter Typhoon (Mockup):(
JwcookThe Eurofighter suppliment does mention that ‘BAE had built 13 of the 55 tranche 1 aircraft by november 2003, in doing so had fullfilled their contractual obligations’…(page 55 under the UK heading)
Somebodys got something wrong….!.
And something which bears out my Case White thoughts..
That the UK two seater BT005 will suppliment the IPA fleet by being used for testing the DASS for 4-5 months before being returned to the RAF. (bottom of page 39.)
So it seems there is a grey area between final assembly and delivery to the RAF.
A sort of ‘Case Grey’ !!!
Cheers
JwcookOriginally posted by YellowSun
JCI’m going to have to stop you there, because that’s just not correct.
‘Case White’ – properly known as the Contractor Support Service (CSS) agreement – is an essential part of the Eurofighter introduction to service plan for the RAF, but there is no blurring of the lines of ownership. BAE Systems does NOT own any of the RAF’s aircraft. After the initial Development Aircraft (DA) Eurofighters, all the aircraft from the IPAs to the SPAs and onwards are CUSTOMER aircraft – they are owned and operated by the air forces. There isn’t some grey mix of BAE and RAF aircraft involved in Case White.
Thats why I used ‘may’ in my post, I’m not sure exactly whats happening I was surmising (always a bad move)….. But I have emailed the question the the DPA for any information they can give.
BTW The RAF don’t own the aircraft until they are taken off contract by the RAF, I assume Eurofighter Gmbh does until then.
If I get anything concrete I’ll post it.
Cheers
JwcookIt may just be a question of semantics, there is the ‘Case White’ program for the UK Typhoons, which means that BAEsystems still owns the aircraft but loans them to the RAF to train the pilots.
So the RAF only have 2 at present with 1 on the way, But BAE Warton may have a few more to ‘train’ up the trainers…
Numbers are the great mystery!!!
Cheers
JwcookLatest status as of saturday:-
Mr Cook,
I can confirm that the RAF have accepted 2 aircraft off contract to date. We are planning to accept a further aircraft over the next few weeks.
Thank you for your interest in the Typhoon programme.
Bill Evans
Typh-B2a
Information Manager
Typhoon IPT
Defence Procurement Agency
MOD Abbey Wood
JwcookI’m fairly convinced that there was some influence, its not just that they look alike.
Any aircraft is a set of compromises, The only way to get a similar aircraft design is to start with the same set of design goals and even then you may get wildly differing designs (eg Boeing and Lockheed JSF prototypes).
This P106 and Gripen not only look alike but are virtually identical in all design parameters – Given the differences in Brough/warton and the Swedish designs upto then, I find it quite likely that a secret or informal joint venture or collaboration was started for the Gripen.
Not that it matters much, Either way the Gripen is an excellent aircraft that The Swedes can be proud of.
The book also mentioned an Indian link to the LCA, but the LCA looks more like a French influenced design to me…
Cheers
JwcookFinally found a definite reference!!
http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/hfradar.pdf
331 x F22 require 496500 = 1500 modules
258 x F18E/F require 283800 = 1100 modules
18 x F15C require 27000 = 1500 modules
80 x F16UAE require 80000 = 1000 modules
2852 x JSF require 3422400 = 1200 modules
48 x Global Hawk require 96000 =2000 modules
6.75 x Jstars require 91125 = 13500 modules
There you go!!! a definitive answer with a quotable source…
Cheers
JwcookOriginally posted by aerospacetech
[B]All official material I have seen says“several thousand”
for the AN/APG-77.
In magazines and books, (e.g. AFM) the figure of 2000 elements is often given, but I don’t think it has been officially stated. It is clearly in that ballpark.
Carlo Kopp suggested 800-900 elements would be appropriate for the F-35’s nose array.
These are the sort of figures I have heard but there was a push in the US to have a common 1200 element AESA array for both the F-22 and F-35, the latest MMICs are smaller and can be packed more densely.
So the 1200 hundred MMIC figure for the smaller F-35 is at least in the feasable range.
I have heard that the US settled on around 1000 elements for F-35, but some of the international partners are/were pushing for more elements, up to 1400 or so. Given that the US has the F-22, they are less concerned about A/A performance than some of the other nations, for whom the F-35 will be performing air superiority roles. I doubt that the exact number is decided at this stage.
The F-35 radar draws heavily on the AN/APG-77 technology, but it won’t have as many elements, for size and cost reasons. [/B]
Hmmm. I really cannot remember where I read the ‘common’ array proposal, it makes quite a bit of sense ‘costs wise’.
The technological advances in MMIC are tremendous the cost have now fallen from thousands to the very low hundreds with the near future promising units in the sub 100USD mark. I’ll try to dig up an old report from (IIRC)The designer of the CAPTOR regarding AMSAR and future radars and post it here…
Does anyone have a late copy of Janes Airbourne radars or a Brasseys etc that gives any MMIC counts??
Cheers
JwcookWhere are you getting these figures from???.
I had heard a rumour the F-22 and JSF might share a 1200 element array due to costs and commonality etc.. But i can’t find any quotable references to it!!…
Where did you get your figures from?.
Cheers
JwcookSorry to disappoint you, but those pages you mention are not up to date. I know more about the current status than is mentioned on those pages.
Well don’t be shy, let me know, The information that our site carries usually come from quotable and respected sources, its all very well knowing something, or even guessing something – proving it is harder.
So if theres anything major missing please do tell, or if theres a more accurate or more detailed site, then I’d like to see it.
Cheers
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