That is absolutely not how it works! You do not just give someone a theoretical background in something and let them get on with it. It takes years and years of accumulative experience and on the job training to make a truly skilled worker!:eek:

I bet you also think that a one year training programme will make a Caucasian peasant into a soldier of the same calibre of a fully proffesional Royal Marine trained and conditioned in very well funded institution with hundreds of years of continuous development and experience?:rolleyes:

More racist crap? Let me guess, Alfa and Vympel compared to SAS are a joke right? :rolleyes:

How do you know “how it works” – you have no idea how much experience the crews working on Gorshkov have. They could have been the same crew to overhaul any Russian Navy ship for the last 20 years! Any crew will have people of varying skill level. You think that everyone who build the last Nimitz was some veteran shipbuilder? That’s BS.

Most of them would be either retired or dead by now.

LOL!? This is a baseless claim.

So you need 1000 carrier experts? 10,000? 100?

Or what? What sort of worthless discussion is this?

Out comes Vikra! (sorry if repost, this is from Dec. 4)

Don’t think anyone posted this one.

The state of legacy equipment, lack of resources, standards of training and the relatively large number of accidents and suicides all speak to some significant problems facing the Russian military in general and the Russian Navy in particular.

They are making headway in replacing some kit and also are making creditable progress in facilitating some high profile overseas deployments, but they still have a long way to go. This Frigate was 30+ years old and whether it was being readied for decommissioning or not is irrelevant. If you have crew and/or civilians on board there must be more than lip service paid to DC and to safety procedures.

This is another senseless tragedy where Russians are dying needlessly. My condolences to the family.

Like I said, if this was a fire in a house with a fatality, it would have made no news. This happened to be on a Russian Navy boat, so it must be significant news. Especially on the state of the better, more important part of the Navy. Or not! It’s a Krivak II for crying out loud – and it’s damn relevant if you have any basic sense of logic. When was the last time, except for the Kursk disaster, that an actual routine, combat-training exercise went wrong? Sure wasn’t even the Nerpa accident, as that was trials.

If Kuznetsov sinks in its upcoming deployment, or if Neustrashimy explodes, or Pyotr Velikiy falls apart – I’ll agree with you on the ‘dire’ state of the RuN.

Apologies, confused Varyag with a Kiev class.

In any case, didn’t the deal with the Ukraine / China specify that it wouldn’t be refitted for combat – ever?

wikipedia quoting Jane’s:
Analysts believe that the PLAN will use Varyag as a training platform for carrier take-offs and landings. Robert Karniol, the Asia editor of Jane’s Defence Weekly, said: “The Chinese haven’t seen this type of carrier before and it could be very useful to them. They are trying to vacuum up as much know how as they can.” Liu Huaqing, a senior admiral of the PLAN and proponent of naval modernization, has spoken of the 21st century as the “century of the sea” and called for naval modernization over several decades. At the same time, there has been resistance within the PLAN at Liu Huaqing’s vision for an extensive Chinese navy, leading to constant debates between developing aircraft carriers and submarines.”

another quote from Wikipedia

“Nevertheless, it was painted in PLAN grey in 2005. On 24 October 2006, the Kommersant online daily newspaper revealed Russia plans to sell up to 50 Su-33 fighters in a $2.5 billion deal. The deal has gone through according to the February 2007 issue of Air Forces Monthly.[cite this quote] Also recent photos in the Dalian Shipyard have shown that a yellow anti-skid primer was added to the flightdeck. Then the final flight deck turf layering was added on top of it. The vessel has also been painted in the standard PLA Naval colours. This may indicate that the PLA Navy intend to use the ex-Varyag as an operational carrier at some point in the future.

Jane’s Fighting Ships states that Varyag may have been named Shi Lang and assigned pennant number 83. Jane’s notes that both the name and pennant number are unconfirmed, however. Shi Lang was a Ming-Qing Dynasty admiral who conquered Taiwan in 1681.[4] Jane’s Navy International noted in October 2007 that ‘refurbishment work and fitting out is continuing and the vessel is expected to begin initial sea trials in 2008.'[5]”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvO8evzOunk

Interesting to hear – this Su-34 documentary @ 0:48 claims that the RCS of the Su-34 is equivalent to that of a *cruise missile.* – “near-stealth” as quoted from the video.

this is for you 😉
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Russian_financial_crisis

Lol! Did you miss the part about the economy not actually being in a recession?:D