echonineWell, if the biggest ambition USAF has is to overfly Caracas without being noticed, then I agree with you – they are very likely to achieve that with the Raptor.. Is that what you wanted to hear? 😎
The lack of scenario in these retarded discussions is quite fun isn’t it?
The US will never attack Russia, Russia will never attack the US. Not in the next 100 years. Likelihood is very low. The attacker just has nothing to gain, everything to lose, and vice versa.
So, the pissing contests are usually about “US jets suck” or “Russian jets suck.”
In reality, even a slight performance up hand will not mean a thing, since Russia can crush some smaller nation / force that has 10 Patriot sites and 100 F-22s or F-35s, and the US can crush some smaller nation / force with 10 S-300/S-400 sites and 100 Su-35BMs or PAK-FAs.
At this rate, the US and Russian airspace are basically suicide zones for an aggressor, and in terms of offense each air force can take out any REAL POTENTIAL enemy.
echonineYou seem to be in the minority. 😉
Fan boy. :rolleyes:
echonineAll of those weapons have reached IOC, and the JSOW has been used in combat.
Evidence for JASSM being deployed?
And all of these new weapons can’t even be used on an F-22/F-35, except externally, which is kind of fail for them.
echonineWell, if true the West will maintain clear Air Superiority over Russian for decades to come…………:cool:
LOL! :rolleyes:
echonineWasn’t it the US Navy that recruited pilots that were +/- 2″ tall for conformity reasons?
Could have just been a rumor.
echonineO.k … once again a lot of misunderstandings … because of repeated use of designations. I hope I’m correct with this:
S-37 (later Su-47) Berkut: Aviadvigatel D-30F6 (originally also planned with Lyulka AL-41F ??)
Mikoyan MFI 1.44: Lyulka AL-41F (completely new engine, at least new core)
Sukhoi PAK-FA T-50: Lyulka AL-41F1A … more closely related to the AL-31F (uses its core)Or can anyone help with corrections ?!!??
Deino :confused:
The T-50 will have a completely new engine.
echonineWhatever entity will enter NATO and EU will be distinctly different from today’s Ukraine. A Ukraine sans the parts east of the Sumy – Dneprpetrovsk line and on east of the Dnepr. I expect that to happen within the next ten years. And since the major defense industry in Charkov is east of that line, there will be only the industry in the greater Kiev area left. Not a real good base for an own project. And they don’t have the money anyway – not in a generation. Even though a Gripen NG would be a nice plane, for political reasons chances are that they will go for some U.S. equipment via FMA/FMS.
I was born in Sumy. Doesn’t feel like “Ukraine” there at all. 😉
echonineIf Ukraine don´t join NATO my gut feeling is that they still want to keep a door open to the West. Even if Ukraine and Russia are friends today I don´t think the Ukrainians are willing to become too dependant on Russian miliitary equipment.
Hopefully, by then Medvedev and Putin are gone too 😉
Too dependent on Russian equipment? Is this a joke? Think about what you are saying.
Their whole infrastructure is meant to support it, so are their training programs. Think about the savings associated with buying Russian (and buying Russian AGAIN! in their case). Georgians threw away their US weapons and went back to Russian ones in ONE day!
——-
Putin and Medvedev have the support of most people, that’s first hand as well I can tell you that much. Anyone without a case of Russophobia respects them.
They have no issues with Ukraine. They have issues with not getting payments for gas supplies. They have issues with NATO in their backyard. Very illogical right?
echonineRussians and Ukrainians are very similar ethnically, especially the East/North-East Ukraine. They are people with familial and past blood ties.
Frankly, once the Yuschenko idiot gets out of office, Ukraine and Russia will be back to good terms.
Russians / Ukrainians don’t want sour ties between the countries – I tell you this from personal experience.
echonineI did some googling and found this Wikipedia article about the Ukranian Air Force. A quote from the article that I find interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force
As most people know Ukraine is considering joining NATO. Whether this will happen or not is a political topic which doesn´t really belong here on this forum. Anyway, where will Ukraine go shopping new fighters? Will they turn to the West or stick with Russian designs? Which fighter would suit the needs of Ukraine?
No flaming, please 😉
Actually the politics is exactly what it’s all about.
If they join NATO, which they won’t, they would get NATO aircraft when it would be deemed a dire necessity to replace older ones.
If they don’t join NATO, they will likely opt for either large refurbishing of their fleet, or less of the 4++ Gen Russian fighters.
echonineLow RCS combined with-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suter_(computer_program)
The Israelis flew non-stealthy aircraft right through dense Syrian IADs, and they never saw them. What do you think the likelihood of a VLO aircraft getting spotted would be in conjunction with these techniques?
http://superconductors.org/emp-bomb.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/hpm.htmhttp://www.deagel.com/Warheads/BLU-114_a000941001.aspx
JSOW/JSOW-ER
JASSM
HDAM
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/stellent/groups/public/documents/content/cms01_055752.pdfGBU-39
Combined with other legacy assets and weapon systems, EA-6B/EA-18G/RC-135/E-8/T-LAMs, etc… might just cause your scenario to be less efficient at downing F-22/35s than you might hope.
Now you are just grabbing at straws haha!
Suter – what exactly is thing going to do? The Russian SAM networks are obviously operated on their own network, which is encrypted, and surely you know how good Russian programmers are? Many are actually independent and it’s simply impossible to hack into it, ask SOC!
HDAM? What is that link for? They finally making a ARM that won’t shoot friendly bombers?! 😀
Where are these new toys? Certainly not in wide use!
Nor are they very fast, which makes them ideal candidates for short and medium range SAMs!
echonineThe rest of the aviation industry journalists >Carlo Kopp
-Those 300-400km ranges are against AWACS, not 12G 1m2- .0001m2 targets. 😀
Even an F-22 can’t really perform anything over 9G, a range of 300KM (add 30% – 40% like you would, LOL, from a fast MiG-31, Su-35, PAK-FA, etc) – and you’re right back to some massive 300KM + range? :rolleyes: Your argument works wonders in reverse.
Let’s do some basic math here. If the C5 has a range of 105km, and the C7 has a longer range than 105km, and the D has a 50% longer range than that, what do you think the likelihood of it’s range being 165km?:cool:
It wouldn’t even be worth mentioning that the C7 was extended in range over the C5 were that the case.
Now add 30-40% over that range when fired by an F-22 at M 1.5+.
So add those % to the Russian missiles to then? :rolleyes:
You also have no evidence whatsoever except crap your are pulling out of your posterior, as I have said a long time ago. Links sir, or you might as well just drop it! 😀
echonine
I don’t think this was posted before, and it’s incorrectly quoted on Wikipedia as an “UN-EXPLODED” Russian missile.
Seems like the booster of a Tochka? Or Iskander-M?
echonineI see you’re using Carlo Kopp as a source by the way.:rolleyes:
Can you point out in that link where the R-37/KS-172 are designed to be used against 12G targets(The R-77 is credited with that capability)? According to that article, the Irbis E will be able to detect F-22/35s at less than 30 miles. The R-77M apparently has a ~86.5NMI range.
Carlo > You and your sourceless approach. :rolleyes:
“Recently redesignated the K-100/R-100, Novator’s R-172 AAM-L followed the R-37 into development, and is available with a booster pack to extend its considerable range performance to 400 km. The weapon is intended to kill AWACS/AEW&C and tankers (KnAAPO).”
http://warfare.ru/?catid=262&linkid=2175
^ KS-172 Hits 12G targets.
And what is the IOC on these paper missiles?
IOC for the KS-172 is TBD, likely around the time the Su-35 goes into serial production. This missile is far more than paper, which I can’t say for the JDRADM LOL! 😀
More interestingly, the KS-172 may be proposed for export, while the RuAF may adopt the R-37M later – which will be 300-400KM range.
The R-37 at the moment is 300KM range, a hell of a lot more than any western missile!
http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jalw/jalw3600.html
The R-37 is already in production as stated, what’s “paper” here? Denial at its worst eh? :rolleyes:
While the true range is classified, some somewhat accurate guesstimates can be made-
AIM-120C5 ~100-110km
AIM-120C7 ~50 percent better or ~150-160km
AIM-120D has 50 percent better range than C7, which put the D at ~200km or more(especially when fired from an F-22)
If you do a Google search, there are many sites where there is discussion on this as well. Take it for what it’s worth.
Operational
range AIM-120A/B: 50-80 km (30-50 miles)
AIM-120C-5: 105 km (65 miles)
AIM-120D: 165 km (102 miles)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120
“The AIM-120C has been steadily upgraded since it was introduced. The AIM-120C-6 contained an improved fuse (Target Detection Device) compared to its predecessor. The AIM-120C-7 development began in 1998 and included improvements in homing and greater range (actual amount of improvement unspecified). It was successfully tested in 2003 and is currently being produced for both domestic and foreign customers. It helped the U.S. Navy replace the F-14 Tomcats with F/A-18E/F Super Hornets – the loss of the F-14’s long-range AIM-54 Phoenix missiles (already retired) can be partially offset with a longer-range AMRAAM, but note that the AMRAAM does not have a very-long range like the Phoenix missile.
The AIM-120D is an upgraded version of the AMRAAM with improvements in almost all areas, including 50% greater range (than the already-extended range AIM-120C-7)”
That’s reality, right off of a compilation on Wikipedia. Without links, you are just lying! :rolleyes: Their sources are listed on the bottom of the page, and check out.
http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jalw/jalw3025.html
R-77M (RVV-AE-PD) range with 160KM, that’s 5KM short of the AIM-120D. Wow! :rolleyes:
Wonder what the 5th gen A2A Russian missile will be like in the next 4-5 years.
echonineIf you read Sferrin’s comment above, you’ll see what I was getting at. The F-22/35 must still pay attention to the detection ranges of any emitters(which they’ll see first). It’s not carefree loitering per se. It’s more akin to TF radar, but the obstacles are EM.
What is this? A dream scenario? Or is NATO bombing another country with 3 SAM sites and 10 fighters?
Those S-400 radars may not even be emitting! Or in the same spot they were 1 hour ago, when they were found on spy sat.
In any kind of serious conflict, that F-22 or F-35 is going to have to fly over a lot of hostile territory which will likely be monitored by numerous radars (EWRS, AWACS, etc) and SAM systems of various ranges, and at the far back guarding the more important assets will be the heavy SAM batteries like the S-300PM and S-400 with their short-range cover SAMs. Those fighters way well be picked up by a spec ops recon element that isn’t asleep by simply hearing them fly by!
They’ll be flying over loads and loads of enemy ground forces that are in combat with the attacking force (that’s also using the F-35/F-22), which means they might even get picked off by an odd TOR-M or BUK-M1/2 which is forward deployed, hidden under a big tree, bush whatever, that’s not emitting, but realizes there’s enemy air power nearby.
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