echonineCNN reports that Russia used 15 SS-21 missiles 😮
That picture made it look like the warhead has separated . . . some sort of submunition delivery?
CNN reported that T-64 were used, I’m assuming that’s probably confusion wit the T-80U?
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/11/starr.georgia.us.military.cnn
echoninelol fella don’t get to upset, now you say you have been following this from Russian news channels which constantly parrot the line the Georgians were attacking civilians, maybe they were maybe they weren’t we don’t know at this stage, you may feel sure you know and trust the Russian press but for the rest of the world we have to see some proof not just rantings, also in your next sentence you go on to say that Russian SOLDIERS were wounded by a ‘massive’ Mi-24 attack which dircetly contradicts your Russian allegations that those helo’s were attacking innocent civilians… (pro-tip tune out of the Russian news channels and into something a bit more respected and no i dont mean fox or cnn before you scream bias at me)
Are you trolling now?
I am telling you what I hear – of course I am sure the civilians were told to make up stories by the Russian press . . . :rolleyes:
The camera people just forced them to say – “The Georgians attacked us” .. One thing about Russian TV, is they don’t make up stories. They might make them SOUND more like what they want to (like CNN, etc), but at least they get people to talk about what is going on. So it’s not the Russian press talking about how the civilians got attacked, its the civilians themselves. You probably don’t know the difference anyway.
There is no direct contradiction – that attack was useless. So the Georgian Mi-24s were either real bad at shooting, or they were shooting at something else and hit 3 Russian soliders – not even lethally.
So what is respected? BBC? :rolleyes:
Most other small channels don’t even report directly from the war zone, so take your pick.
You are also going off topic, so take your propaganda crap to General Discussion.
echonineHow the do you know what the Georgian Helos are doing? For all you or i know they are inflicting casualties, i realise your rooting for the Russians but try and be at least a bit objective when discussing this subject. Also your second sentence is stinking of propaganda.
Stinking of what propaganda? I’ve been following this from Russian news channels also, which constantly have people in personal stories saying that Georgians were targeting civilians.
Also, that massive Mi-24 attack Georgia mounted resulted in several Russian soldiers wounded, as per news on TV.
Do you understand?
echonineI doubt the Russians are going to get any “air kills” – considering most Georgian jets are likely to be destroyed on the ground (already).
echonineLooks like the missile never detonated, huh? Expensive way to waste a car…
I must say that I am surprised the RU AF have managed to screw up so badly.. The war is three days old (at least), and yet I heard of Georgian helicopters strafeing rus. troops in S.Ossetia today. I would have thought the Georgian AF would last a coupple of hours. Tops. Where are the Flankers over Tbilisi?
Why would they send Flankers over Tbilisi? They have no intention of going that far.
3 CAS aircraft lost is normal, care to guess which jet was shot down the most in Desert Storm?
echonineNot especially.
Yeah, what what other tactical ballistic missiles offer much better, not that it would even make much of a difference.
echonineHow is it a logical fallacy. Explain yourself?.
You are assuming one example will automatically mean that it would be similar for another case. Not always true.
Covered this already – you bringing back MC02 every now and again doesnt change the basic facts. China doesnt have the capability to target at extreme standoff.
Yes it does, I’m not saying China will obliterate the US Navy on demand here either because of the MC02 results. Considering they do have some, granted vintage Soviet anti-ship weapons, if they can coordinate their recon and shooter assets, be they together or not.
Grow up. I’ve said nothing about the USSR’s military in general I said their OTH antiship tactics didnt work. Tactics that others have thought had merit….but are only now getting on the right path to making work.
Well I kind of like to put words in your mouth, like you like to do to me. Once again, you must think you know better than the entire military of the USSR in terms of what worked and what didn’t. Now THIS, is IGNORANCE and ARROGANCE. :rolleyes:
…and now its the ‘cant attack the post so attack the poster’ routine. You really are a cliche arent you.
Discussed above, in case you think anyone here will think your ideas about anti-ship defenses are more comprehensive than that of the entire USSR’s military, you are wrong. And this is not about the USSR anyway. So drop it.
You dont know what Uspekh and Outlaw Hunter are do you?. You now cite Russian recon and oth missile targetting aircraft – components of the Uspekh system – yet a few days ago you had no concept of the need to divorce shooter and recon assets.
No one is divorcing them. In fact, they should be anything but divorced. They are still used in conjunction with one another- hardly a divorce now?
This does not necessarily mean that these missiles (have to be specific) will require outside guidance either. The SS-N-12/19 have multi-missile attack guidance from what I can recall, with one missile going high, one low. The SS-N-19 for sure.
Please keep going on about my credibility you’re really making me look a halfwit!:rolleyes:
After taking on the entire USSR OTH capability . . . I’ll spare you what I’m going to say to stay civil . . . :rolleyes:
echonineWell it was said weapons were to be carried internally, but other than a CGI glance at a gear modeling computer, the video had no information.
Just a preview of the cockpit.
EDIT: It will use RAM, in case that was ever doubted.
echonineSo apparently the Russians DID employ ballistic missiles – as I think even Bush said?
I was wondering if it was the Iskander, but the 58th army has SS-21s available (wonder if they are mod B or C?).
Is the Iskander being serially deployed now for the ground forces?
I heard its CEP is 17 meters, which is quite impressive.
A top Russian MOD official stated that no new weapons would be used/tested during this conflict. Was a press conference hosted by RIAN shown on RT.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread286791/pg1
INTERESTING FIND. Seems like the Iskander-M is indeed in service of the NORTH CAUCUSES force! So the attack could have been either the SS-21 or SS-26!
echonineThe Georgian plant has nothing to do with the production or maintenance of Russian AF Su-25’s. U-U is where I think they go for depot level maintenance.
Technically speaking they were produced there . . . 🙂
echonineHow’s that a concern anyway, surely the Russians don’t want to have their Su-25 service affected by Georgia in any way.
I’m not sure where the Su-25SM upgrade is done – might be at Lipetsk, although that could just be where they were delivered.
echonineWere they going to rely on air-power? That would be a sketchy thing to base the campaign on, especially considering the backward use of air-power applied thus far (i.e. essentially WWII style tactics, no PGMs etc.).
Non-use of PGMs is also a bit of a myth spurring up here it seems. Considering most are more stand-off oriented, it’s less likely they are going to be filmed while being used. Basing our knowledge of weapons used on sketchy footage isn’t the best way to go I think.
Georgia mostly has soft targets left (like infantry) so I’m sure that’s why Su-25s are doing rocket-strafe runs, and the use of dumb bombs to carpet bomb a military facility makes sense also.
A guided bomb would make sense (if you say, wanted to take out a house in a city, but make sure it was just that house, if possible).
A guided missile would make sense against a harder target, or a long range one if the area has serious SAM defenses.
Just the way it looks.
echoninePeace enforcement or peacekeeping?
The peacekeeping mission in South Ossetia aside, have the Russians designated their offensive operations as peace enforcement?
Yes.
“Peace enforcement” is what they are claiming to be doing now by destroying Georgia’s military infrastructure to prevent further attack on South Ossetia.
echoninePeace enforcement or peacekeeping?
The peacekeeping mission in South Ossetia aside, have the Russians designated their offensive operations as peace enforcement?
Yes.
“Peace enforcement” is what they are claiming to be doing now by destroying Georgia’s military infrastructure to prevent further attack on South Ossetia.
echonineOk, less advanced might be a bit strong – however, its hardly so superior that it would be something worth relying on in the grand scheme of things.
Well what else could they rely on?
As it seems so far, Russian losses are quite minimal – especially in terms of ground forces.
Superior tactics, better coordination, or better gear – who knows.
Tzkhinvali was taken by the VDV and Spetsnaz, so that could explain why the Georgians were thrown out so fast. If these units were armed with the latest portable Russian ATGM AT-14 “Kornet-M,” then it explains the annihilation of the Georgian armor.
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