echonineThis is most odd, 50 missiles and yet not one hit? i guess ‘missiles’ could mean unguided rockets but even then you would have thought at least one would hit the target.
How come the Russians are still using dumb bombs too in this day and age, i say that because i keep seeing pictures/video of frogfoots dropping sticks of unguided munitions at targets, is there no incentive to minimize civilian casualties? Are either side also using any concrete filled munitions to minimize collateral damage as we saw american forces doing in Iraq.Do the Russians have any J-stars like equipment to monitor and track Georgian armour? There are so many questions i have to ask but thats all i have time for at the moment. Thankyou in advance for any answers/info to my questions.
It costs less, clearly.
Even if they are using basic Su-25 / Su-24M for ground strikes, they could be using laser guided bombs/missiles at the least on the Su-25 or TV/laser weapons on the Su-24M. What’s the point though? On day 1 they neutralized the majority if not all of the Georgian air defenses, so why waste money now?
echonineDo we know what types of aircraft are being used so far?
We know about Georgian and Russian Su-25s and Mi-24s, Russian Tu-22M and Su-24.
Any other types like the MiG-29 or Su-27/30?
Yes, someone reported that Su-27s were holding air superiority over Tzkinvali.
echonineIt means that an outfit with operational experience and equipment developed off the strength of that experience has had documented instances of getting things woefully wrong. Its no logical fallacy drawing that conclusion. I say again….arrogance or ignorance?
Your logical fallacy. Again.
So we’ve now understood the part about targetting challenges have we?. Thats progress at least!. The USN have the ability to do plenty whilst ‘sitting there passively’. Assembling the surface and air plot through offboard assets like E-2 Hawkeyes and through passive assets like SURTASS are critical factors in shaping the battlespace. You need to do some reading.
Yeah, and then MC02 comes along and shatters all that. :rolleyes:
Grow up. Instances where the Soviets have spectacularly failed to find USN groups are numerous…the most famous one published is even listed on this thread. Put up something comparable to support Soviet anticarrier tactics.
Again, you are in over your head. Have the Soviets regularly phoned you in on their carrier operations? I didn’t think so. Of course, the USSR’s military was a waste and the US would obliterate it on demand. How original of you.
Ahh the old ‘well, they built them so they must have worked’ argument!. LOL.
Not that you would know better than an entire military network. :rolleyes:
Oh please Flankers are very good long-range platforms but keeping with an MPA on a 12hr patrol circuit are you serious??. You are still talking of relays of fighters and a demand for serious tanking support and, if you want them to have any form of situational awareness, probably AWACS cover in to boot. Tankers and AWACS, not to mention MPA’s, being in relatively short supply in the PLAAF at present!.
Right right, CAP for China impossible. Vaporizing everything for the USN, on demand. Good arguments here. I’m quite impressed. :rolleyes:
Uspekh – aircraft/chopper based. Outlaw Hunter – P-3’s and, I think, some E-2C’s in the early TASM days. Its only Legenda that has a space component. Again – do yourself some good and get some reading in before you post!.
This is interesting. Now you are just twisting words at a last attempt to save yourself some credibility. Someone so self-reputed as yourself should know better. Why do you think Soviet/Russian ships carry these things? Why do you think Soviets had special recon/targeting designated bombers? :rolleyes: They are designed for long range detection/guidance for stand-off weapons. Maybe you should go do some reading.
echonineAnd how many peacekeepers have died on other missions without their nation going bonkers and invading where the peacekeepers were stationed? Really.
If Russia had stopped when Georgia withdrew from S. Ossetia, I’d be willing to cut some slack, but they haven’t. They’re still going full bore and now they’re hitting civilian targets.
Making this relevant to aviation: All the civilian damage doesn’t say much for the accuracy or training of the Russian forces…unless it was on purpose. It’s pretty hard to mistake an apartment complex for a purely military target.
IMO, of course.
Right right, the super-duper US forces have never hit civilians either? :rolleyes:
You are being as naive as most of the people talking about this. Do you seriously thing that now Russia will now counter-attack the Georgian military installations? Gori happens to be home to Georgia’s 1st Infantry Brigade. The town’s military base and munitions warehouse was hit, and when it was destroyed, it caused some collateral damage.
echonineSouth O. is basically a square of 50km/50km. Its capital can be hit from nominal Georgian territory almost directly (it is on the border). Georgian MLRSs, tanks and (now probably dead) warplanes all resplenish, take off or refuel in Georgia / from depots and bases in Georgia. It would be foolish to expect the Russians not to attack these targets.
Of course, and it’s like everyone else pretends not to think so.
The ceasefire calls by Georgia could be just bluffs too, as Russian MoD reported that recon units said Georgian forces were merely regrouping.
Another reason for Russia to move out of Tzhkinvali is that it’s actually lower ground – and is surrounded by higher ground areas that are perfect to place artillery/MLRS platforms on – and they were used by the Georgians to shell the town. Now the Russians obviously want to take control of those vantage points.
echonineIt makes as much sense as Russia granting citizenship to Georgian citizens so they have a perceived reason to invade.
15 Russian peacekeepers died, that’s reason enough.
Or is there some elaborate excuse for that too?
echonineSo by this reasoning, should Canada send it’s troops to the US to protect Canadian citizens in the US?
I didn’t know the US military was targeting Canadians in the US as of late. :rolleyes:
echonineActually, that cockpit looks like the Su-35BM cockpit. This seems like the same footage we’ve seen before when the Su-35 simulator was shown (before the airplane made its flights).
As for that AI stuff, that sounds pretty cool. I assume it would have to be turned off if one wanted to pull a Cobra or Kulbit though 😀
Do not forget the Su-35BM is testing technology for the PAK-FA/T-50, so their cockpits may indeed be similar, but according to the video that is the real thing.
echoninehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCiVKJ5VjE4
This might be a new video for some, but it’s in Russian.
I’ll see if I can get some highlights down for some “fun facts” on the PAK-FA.
—–
-This video in fact has an EXACT copy of the PAK-FA cockpit.
-The PAK-FA will feature an advanced autopilot program that can perform pinpoint combat operations and perform evasive manuevers. The AI will also restrict pilot manuevers if they are too dangerous (video refers to the Paris air show crash, and says the AI would have prevented that) – and similar computer systems are found on the MiG-35!
– More than 100 people are working on the gear system alone, with over 1000 engineers working on the entire system.
-Almost a year is going on with the ground testing of the prototype, before it will be handed over to the military.
-Production will take places at TWO locations: Sukhoi’s plant in Novosibirsk and the MiG plant at Lapik in Lukhovitsy.
-The employees at Sukhoi themselves are kept sort of secretive – their faces are not shown.
echonineRussian MoD reference to S-200 system / Tu-22M loss.
http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28759
——–
nirav,
I do believe the Russian Navy is building a base on Russian territory as well.
I wonder what condition / how complete the facility is though.
“As a consequence of Ukraine announcing that the lease of Russian naval bases on Crimea will not be extended beyond 2017, the Russian Black Fleet is building a new base in Novorossiysk. In July 2007, the Navy Commander announced that the new base will be ready in 2012.[6]”
2012. Still a while to go then . . .
echonineThe Russians were using SS-21s and other SRBMs during Chechnya. I suppose, depending on the type of warhead used and the guidance used, that against certain targets they can be highly effective.
TJ
The SS-21 was quoted to have a lethal blast of 200 meters – this could probably damage a soft airfield quite extensively, or a military base / barracks type zone.
I wonder if the SS-26 Stone “Iskander” has been deployed yet.
echonineActually if Georgia were part of NATO Russia wouldn’t have attacked. How is not having a war “madness” compared to having one?
Attacked or defended?
Sounds like CNN is getting to people already.
When Americans get shot up in Puerto Rico by Caribbean country X, does the US sit around and watch?
echonineAnd who is your “news” source of choice? :rolleyes:
—————————
Source?
Not CNN?
S-200 was said on RENTV live news.
echonineAn experieced service with first-rate kit has problems, but, thats not relevent to what the PLANAF can manage?. Arrogance or ignorance Echo?.
It’s your logical fallacy here, actually. One case must automatically mean the same thing for another? Come on.
Do you have a clue what a sea lane actually is?. These arent defined channels marked out with buoys a couple of miles wide you know?. Sea lanes are the terms for general routes that tides, winds and coastal topography have caused sailors to follow over the years. A carrier group could be spread across a 30 x 30nm box and still be travelling down a sea lane – it could have no recognisable formation whatsoever and have merchantmen pass through it with no ill effect and no knowledge that they had just done it!. If the group is relying on E-2 and SURTASS for offboard sensor coverage and has its ships on commercial nav radar only, how are search assets going to tell the difference between the ducks and the drakes???.
If they are sitting there that passively, they aren’t being very useful or dangerous are they?
When did the Soviets ‘find’ them when the USN we’re trying not to be found?. Please dont embarrass yourself further by bringing up the Kittyhawk/Sukhoi incident from a few years back…the USN used to publish its movements on the internet back then!. Finding that ship was hardly a triumph of Russian maritime reconaissance and the Kitty had the Sukhois tagged an hour before the overflight!.
What do you even know about when they did or did not find the Americans? :rolleyes: Did they call you each time they found NATO/US ships? :rolleyes:
What I do know is, all their recon/attack assets weren’t just for show.
So you still believe that fighters with just a few hours endurance can put coverage on MPA’s patrolling hundreds of miles offshore on patrol routes of 12hrs or more?. OK…like I said last time how many relays of fighters, tanker support missions and AWACS flights are you going to use to screen the MPA’s?.
We are talking about Flankers here, not Harriers. LOL.
How many are we talking about? That depends entirely on a specific situation.
Aerial guidance platforms???. You mean Uspekh or Legenda? LOL. Maybe you mean Outlaw Hunter…the platform developed by the USN to support TASM?. I’d encourage you to look all of them up – they all have one thing in common!. I’ll let you guess what it is! :rolleyes:
I’m talking about aircraft or helicopters. Aerial is not space. :rolleyes: Might want to start there.
echonineWhich would make it a very, very rare aircraft.
It’s either a Tu-22MR or a Tu-22M3. All Blinders and Tu-22M2s are gone, the Blinders for some 15 years already.
The MR variant was ELINT dedicated, so this is quite possible.
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