The problem with C-5A’s is that everyone is unique, therefore contractors cannot bid straight contracts on their refit. C-5B’s were more uniform, therefore their progressive rebuild program. The C-5A’s, with each one built slightly different, is an accident waiting to happen with regards to structural failure. It’s already happened and will continue to happen until their fleet retirement.

So an upgrade of the C-5A’s would have the same problems as those found when BAe went off to make new wings for Nimrod?

Aka. the airframes werent build to the same tolerences as the newbuild components and they didn’t fit.

Steve: I had a bit of time about these boats, both them and the O Boats they replaced- so i think I know what I am talking about, I served in the RAN

Sorry, didn’t mean to imply you didn’t and hadn’t….

Steve: Mate they use those Computers now, but in the begining they were equiped with a Honeywell system that promised so much but delivered so little- the problem was sensor fussion, too much info was coming in and it just couldn’t be sorted by the processors we had- thus everything from Fire Control through to life support was messed up!

Beyond the leading edge when the contract was given and obsolete by the time it entered service was one way i’ve heard it described.

As for these vessels- yes now that the problems are sorted they are a huge step in front of most other subs, these aren’t piddly little SSK’s these vessels are huge SSG’s two decks deep (IIRC not even the Japanese subs are two decks), they really are the biggest D/E subs around and the main reason is due to the area these boats operate in- It’s not just across a little Puddle to the next country!

*Cough* Oberon’s in Vladivostock harbour.

Operations of that distance and duration and that difficulty are what Collins was designed to carry out.

Pitty that Kockums were really Kock-ups.

The “Collins” class subs seemed so great while the RN was having them designed. Now it appears the class had a PR network that had a lot of smoke and mirrors!

The Collins class have had their share of problems, but what technology at the “bleeding edge” to steal a phrase, does not?

Its no different to F-22 or F-35….and F-22 has a lot of problems even today (earlier airframes incapable of being upgraded to later blocks levels).

However the vast majority of the Collins class’s problems have been sorted out and with the possible exception of the Japanese Oyashio and Soryu class are currently at the front of the pack for non-nuclear submarines.

Kev, don’t have a breakdown mate.

$375,000 to fix the generators is nothing. Especially since Collins and Farncomb are at or have passed their mid life refit.

If you have a 15 year old car, you expect things to go wrong on it, you expect things to need fixing. This is no different.

Oh, and the Collins class uses the same Raytheon combat system that the Virginia, Ohio AND 688I.

The lesson with Collins was that its a bad idea to hire a company to do the design work who have never built a submarine anywhere near as large before.

Fairly sure i’ve heard it said that HMAS Collins herself is not as capable of the other submarines due to design defects that were worked out for the other submarines. 😡

For reference Look at this. It makes interesting reading especially page 317 of chapter 26.

For starters you can’t produce ethanol by running a current through water.

The thing that must be remembered with AIP submarines is that they don’t really increase the mobility of the submarine, they just increase the amount of time it can be submerged.

It may be instructive to look at the Brooklyn Class and their record at damage in combat.

USS Nashville and USS St Louis were both hit by kamikazes, and survived.
USS Boise was hit by a large calibre shell, which didn’t expode, and survived.
USS Honolulu and USS St Louis both survived being torpedoed, the Honolulu also survived a second torpedoing later, this time by an aircraft-launched torpedo.
USS Savannah was hit by a Fritz-X, and was severely damaged, although saved by her crew to be rebuilt.

The Fritz-X was designed from the start to be used against armoured warships. It weighed almost 1400kg with its 320kg warhead. It achieved a supersonic speed of almost 1300km/h. It was designed to penetrate 130mm of armour. Seeing as it was airlaunched, I imagine it had a diving trajectory.

HMAS Hobart survived a Torpedo Hit (very small light cruiser).

And from memory the ship hit by the most kamakaze’s in the Pacific was HMAS Australia, as a County class cruiser, it hardly had a reputation for being the most armoured of cruisers, yet it survived.