StevoJHAll of their 150 Backfires can use anti-ship weapons and will do so if necessary.
None of hte other countries you listed have “long range” strike platforms if you count the airframe itself.
If you want to count smaller aircraft, then the Russians can launch anti-ship strikes with Su-24Ms, Su-34s, Su-27SMs, Tu-95MS Bears with Kh-555/101 TV-guided missiles, or Tu-160s with Kh-15 or TV guided missiles.
Sure, but do the pilots train for the role? That is a key question.
StevoJHWont happen, the F136 is the alternate engine for F35’s of all models. The F135 is currently powering all the prototypes including the F35B prototype. US government stopped funding the F136 a couple of years ago.
StevoJHAnd they were hit. Imagine now that instead of attacking with a pitiful two aircraft carrying a total of two missiles, they had ~50 aircraft. How long would the escort screen have lasted? Based on the damage two inflicted, the escort screen and carriers would likely have been annihilated by a single attack wave.
Since you are altering History (Argentina couldn’t afford 50 SUE’s and could not launch a co-ordinated strike of ~50 aircraft due to logistics or they would have done so. So lets assume Argentina has the command and control and logistics to launch a 50 aircraft strike of A4’s, Mirage and SUE’s.
So, if you can alter history so can I. The sailing of the fleet to southern Waters is delayed by six months as the RN is unsure if they have enough time before winter to carry out their objectives, meanwhile France still prevents Argentina purchasing further SUE’s and Exocet.
This 6 month delay gives the RN 11 T42’s, all with Type 1022 Radar.
Bristol with type 1022 Radar.
It also gives the RN HMS Illustrious and HMS Bulwark as a third and fourth carrier and the two Tiger class cruisers for ASW and NGFS with their 6″ guns.
Rather then just two type 22 frigates, the delay makes available 4 Type 22 frigates plus the first pair of Sea Wolf Leanders.
Plus the ships would deploy with the AEW Sea King making the surprise attacks that sank so many ships unlikely to occur, and both the Carriers and Destroyers would have Phalanx Units, as an order was placed prewar.
Centaur Class Carriers: 1 –> 2
Invincible Class Carriers 1 –> 2
Type 42 Destroyers: 5 –> 11
Type 22 Frigates: 2 –> 4
Sea Wolf Leanders: 0 –> 2
Tiger Class Cruisers: 0 –> 2
Other ships deployed would stay the same. Number of SHAR’s deployed would double, with the 6 months prewar being used to build more SHAR’s and convert RAF flight crews to them. 28 –> 56. More if Some of the Sea Kings are either left at home or transferred to the two Tiger class Cruisers.
Oh, and the first strike sortie on the carriers consisted of 36 aircraft operating in 2 or 4 aircraft flights in search patterns, only one flight found british ships, and these were inshore carrying out NGFS. So of a strike of ~50, only around 8 aircraft would probably actually find the task group.
StevoJHThat’s not an OTH radar. Those things are part of the SEVER troposcatter network:
Yup, a true OTH radar such as JORN in Australia literally covers hundreds of kilometers of terrain with transmitters and receivers.
StevoJHApparently Merwede offer a version with a dock, but that’s a paper project, & after the problems with Canterbury I’m wary of it. I think that if I wanted the cheapest amphibious ship I could get (the only reason for buying a ferry-derived ship like Canterbury that I can see – she was very cheap) I’d buy Korean. The Indonesian (Korean-designed, first two Korean0built) Makasar-class look like a much better bet.
Havent had a chance to completely read through that report i found on gov.nz yet, will read it in the morning. But if what wiki is correct, then her props are out of the war in sea state 6 and there may be fatigue problems with her landing craft davits. Doesn’t sound good. She is based off an Isle of Man ferry isn’t she?
StevoJHWhat, banned for shaking you out of your day-dreaming? 😎
The Russian Navy’s awful safety record is a reason why you shouldn’t be so fast to say it’s superior to competitors like the Royal Navy. You invite comments like the one I’ve made with the arrogance you’ve shown on this thread.
Yes the Russian Navy does not exactly have the best safety record, however that is something they can work on, and since then their budget has increased giving them more money for maintenance and training, meaning that in teh future they will hopefully be a bit better.
And one thing, can you please do us all a favour and just remember that disrespecting the dead is bad form. Thanks
StevoJHWhoa whoa! With RAF support? Let’s not forget Russia has an airforce too. One that the UK will dream of for the rest of its existence. . . 😀
How many of its aircraft are flyable? do you have overseas territories where you can base those aircraft without limitations on your operations?
Navy only, the Northern Fleet even has almost TWO regiments worth of Tu-22M3 Backfires assigned two it! Not even counting the other “navy assigned” aerial assets.
To target what? with what refueling assets? with what targeting assets?
The RN CV’s are a damn joke at the moment, even the unupgraded Su-33 will make a mockery of any Harriers!
Not given several months warning. Given warning the SHAR’s in storage can be put back into service and the production line reopened (the tooling exists because an Indian SHAR was just completely remanufactured in the UK) alternatively you refit the GR.9’s with Blue Vixen or with the same radar as fitted to the AV-8B+.
And props to the UK catching up to the 1980s Slavas in Naval SAM systems!
I never said anything about capability, i was referring to role. Plus i mentioned the T42’s as well. The ships i mentioned are the only ones in the Russian Navy with an Area Air Defense capability.
In 2012 we’ll be able to have a look at the new Russian destroyer and see how that’s improved.
Yes we will, assuming that oil revenues go back up enough that they can afford to build them, I assume they will get the S-400 system?
I was also referring to the Navies as a whole, as people honestly seem to think that the Russian Navy is somehow “weak” for what it is now designed for, which is defense.
The way you stated the situation, you implied that the Russian Navy would be attacking the Royal Navy, in which case it would lose and could be destroyed piecemeal. In the opposite scenario, the RN would lose, because it is not designed to take on the whole Russian Airforce and Navy. I apologise if i misunderstood you.
So, Russia probably can’t defeat the UK if it attacks, but neither can the UK defeat Russia. As for the Russian Navy, it must be remembered that like the British Military and many others around the world the forces of the Russian Military still mainly consist of same equipment they were receiving at the end of the cold war with new equipment just starting to be introduced.
I’m going to make the assumption that like many other militaries that have started to receive new equipment, the Russian Forces will shrink numerically as the new equipment is introduced, due to the purchase and development costs, however overall the forces will become more balanced and more powerful.
StevoJHSorry to break this to you, but the Royal Navy isn’t, and will never come close to even today’s Russian Navy. Or there wouldn’t be a NATO for all of the tiny European countries to hide under. 😀
Wrong.
Source here
Russian Navy:
1 CV
4 CG
18 DDG
16 FFG
12 SSBN
6 SSGN
15 SSN
16 SSK
Note:
-CG’s are the Russian Navies only equivilent AAW asset comparable to T45 or T42.
-DDG’s equivilent to UK T22 and T23 Frigates
-FFG’s except Neustrashimy more equivalent to a German Corvette rather then an RN frigate.
-CV’s servicability low and in large time periods it is not available
-SSBN’s irrelevant as if they come into play the other resources do not matter.
-Of those commissioned assets, it is unknown how many are ready for sea at any time, and it must be noted that these ships are divided between 5 fleets rather then the UK’s one fleet. The Black Sea assets cannot interfere as long as the UK controls Gibraltar because the Pacific fleet is too far away to interfere before the Northern and Baltic fleets are destroyed, as is the Black Sea fleet if it has to sail around the horn of good hope (do the russians have the AOR’s to do so without entering port?).
RN
2 CV (plus 1 in reserve)
7 DDG (8 counting Dauntless, 7 if Exeter is removed from the list)
17 FFG
4 SSBN
8 SSN
In theatre, the RN with RAF aid can destroy the Russian Northern Fleet before the Pacific or Black Sea fleets can reinforce. Without Airborn cover, the RAF may be able to defeat (it will at least attrite it severely) the Pacific Fleet from bases in Diego Garcia, Australia or Malaysia before it even reaches the Atlantic.
Edit>does anyone know the lockon time for Brimstone? I assume you could use a low level approach to get in Brimstone range of a Russian Fleet depending on what their radar range is against a sea skimming target.
StevoJHI Don’t like your amphibious ship, its an enlarged Canterbury and the RNZN are having problems with her. The design you outline is an RO-RO and does not have a well deck, meaning you can only carry landing craft on davits, and anything that cannot be carried by embarked helicopters needs a port to unload.
StevoJHAs well as bases in Seychelles an BIOT.
Don’t see that happening, especially the second one. 😉
Funny thing is, any build up on the eastern edge of Africa would probably result in the build up of the IN and RAN since both would see Kumar as a threat, especially the RAN who base half their fleet in the pacific and half in the Indian Ocean.
StevoJHWhilst I fully understand that the V-22 is expensive, it does offer unique capabilities.
Can anyone provide a comparison on speed, range payload for the V-22, Merlin, chinook and C-27J Spartan, and also information on typical in theatre loads? I know the C-130 exceeds all of the above but could a V-22 carry out some of it’s in theatre roles? For example supplying forward deployed troops directly from a main base rather than moving stores/personel forward on a C-130 then to the troops via Merlin/chinook.
I am just trying to work out if a V-22 buy could actually kill many more birds with one stone and offer greater operational flexibility if purchased for both the RN and RAF?
Finally how expensive would it be to develope a presurized V-22. This would remove many limitations and increase range etc?
The V22 can carry a slightly larger payload then the Merlin at faster speed about a hundred nautical miles further, but costs roughly three times as much as a Merlin (and as I said, you can almost buy a C130J for how much they cost)
The chinook carries more than either and can carry it further, costs a bit more then a Merlin and nowhere near as much as a V-22, it also has a larger combat radius then the Osprey.
If you want the numbers, have a look at the following links.
AW101: http://www.deagel.com/Tactical-Support-Helicopters/EH101_a000461003.aspx
CH-47F: http://www.deagel.com/Tactical-Support-Helicopters/CH-47F-Chinook_a000504003.aspx
V-22: http://www.deagel.com/Military-Transport-Aircraft/MV-22B-Osprey_a000522001.aspx
C27J: http://www.deagel.com/Military-Transport-Aircraft/C-27J-Spartan_a000523001.aspx
C130J: http://www.deagel.com/Military-Transport-Aircraft/C-130J-Super-Hercules_a000526004.aspx
StevoJHEd, you might want to check some prices because I think you went way over budget.
For the Danish frigates, i was under the impression that they were basically an Absalon minus the vehicle deck.
Regarding the Collins place, apparrently a lot of the build problems were a result of some swedish errors, sine they basically scaled up Gotland IIRC and it didn’t quite work right. Problems had to be sorted out with US aid. The requirements for the original combat system were beyond the possible with the available technology for the time, which caused all sorts of problems, they now have the combat system used in Virginia.
For Modified ANZAC or something similar, it has to be quite a bit larger then ANZAC, T23 size minimum, T22 size would be better (they are having massive topweight problems from what i’ve read on other forums). Stanflex on a frigate? Why? :confused:
@ swerve:
Does it have to be Hyuga itself? Could you basically use the same concept, possibly based on a heavily modernised Invincible (crew saving etc) and get it built in Korea?
StevoJHThe V-22 is a very expensive Aircraft (almost as much as a C130J), its not pressurized and its range isn’t all that much higher then that of the Merlin.
The BA609 if pressurized may be a much better (and cheaper) option (wiki lists price as “over $10 million”) for both COD and AEW. Not sure if the BA206 has the carrying capacity though.
Wonder if the BA206 could be scaled up to provide a fast long range sea king replacement, preferrably cheaper then the V-22. 😉
StevoJHI assume they could transfer the crew to one of the partially crewed ones and be at sea VERY quickly if needed. 😉
StevoJHthy hyuga is mainly what threw me off what would be your ammerments and senor fit on her? what is the Dokdo capable of?
Dokdo can only do 23 knots, had a well deck taking up a tone of space and is nowhere near as well armed as an ASW Carrier, which is the role for which Hyuga (which can be thought of more as a modern day Invincible) was designed to fullfill.
As a combatant warship, i’d take Hyuga Everyday, as an LHD or amphibious assault ship, i’d take Dokdo.
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