The USS Nimitz – top speed ~56 knots

Attack class USN Submarine top speed 80+ knots
source: sonar tech E6, TS/SAP, USS CVN68 Nimitz

He’s having a lend of you. 😉
Even the LCS which is *designed* specifically to go fast *only* has a top speed of ~40-45knots.

I can imagine a hangar for 2 Merlin, or 1 Merlin + UAVs. But why in the world would you need a deck for 2 ASW helos, or a hangar for 3? That doesn’t fit what any navy in the world is doing. IMHO, the idea that the RN is suddenly going to relaunch the Cold War-style DDH concept, when every other navy in the world has abandoned it, is just a pipedream.

Regarding C2, I personally don’t like the idea of a cheap GP warship, because it can’t add much value as an escort in a high-threat environment, and has no other real wartime role. I don’t buy the “chokepoint” escort concept – it’s too narrow. There might be a need for 1 or 2 ships to deploy in that role in wartime but what about the remaining C2s?…

The one area where C2 could definitely add value in wartime is as a “GP+ frigate”: a somewhat expendable scout on the edges of a task force, taking on roles such as land attack, commando infiltration, NGS etc, and using its sensors to expand the task force’s defensive bubble, all while allowing C1 and Type 45 to focus on their primary escort roles. LCS can’t do all that – I was thinking something like a watered down FREMM AVT frigate, i.e. bigger than a FM400 frigate but much cheaper than a F125 frigate. Say about 5,000 tons, with:

– 32x CAAM
– 8x Harpoon
– 16x TACTOM
– 1x 127mm Oto-Melara gun (or BAE 155mm if it is everdeveloped)
– 6x torpedoes for ASW self-defense
– Hangar for 1x Merlin HM1 or 2x Future Lynx or 1 Lynx + UAVs in ASuW/transport role
– 2-4 large RHIBS

Such a C2 would be rather more expensive than a pure GP frigate, but it would have a real wartime role while also being very well suited to peacetime patrols, and still cheap enough without expensive long-range radars or towed ASW gear. I wouldn’t want more than 5-6 C2s, and would try to get one or two more C1s. I’d try to have them share the same hull, possibly based on a shortened Type 45 hull.

T45:
fits the inner row of 24 VLS cells, make them the A70 version, but fit them with Aster 30.

C1:
-T45 with Sampson replaced by Artisan
-Search Radar removed
-32 of the 48 VLS cells replaced by A70 for SCALP N or TACTOM. Gives 32 Tactical Tomahawks and 64 CAMM missiles.
-TAS under the flight deck.
-Ships boats moved forward leaving space for a second Merlin sized hanger. The second hanger would probably mainly be used for UAV’s, flight deck still sized for Chinook
-155mm gun
-2 x phalanx for anti-boat duties
-4 x 30mm guns in remotely operated Typhoon mounts (or other).
– Design speed 28 knots (same as T45).

C2:
-Direct replacement for the T23, around 5,000-5,500t (same size as T22).
-155mm gun.
-16 VLS cells (all A70’s if the hull is deep enough), enough for up to 64 CAMM or 32 CAMM and 8 TACTOM.
-Flight deck sized for Merlin, Hanger sized to fit a Merlin plus a number of small UAV’s.
-4x30mm guns in Typhoon(or other) mounts, remotely controlled.
-FFBNW 1 x Phalanx over the hanger.
-FFBNW a TAS under the flight deck (or at least space and weight saved).
-Design speed 28 knots (same as T45).

C3:
-Stretched Clyde class with hanger for Lynx.
-Crane fitted along the back end of the Hanger for deploying MCM and Survey Vehicles. Basically a much smaller version of the one on HMAS Manoora and in a similar position but on the rears of the ship.
-2 x 30mm guns on remotely operated Bushmaster mounts, one forward and one mounted on the roof of the hanger.
-2x.50cal machine guns in remotely operated Mini Typhoon (or other) mounts to the sides of the superstructure.
-25 knots on diesels, enough to overtake any commercial freighter and to keep up with the ARG or CVBG if it has to deploy (would be utilised for MCM or in the dispatch role carried out by the Castles during the Falklands War.

Build the C2 at the Scotstoun yard beloving to BAe, since was building 2 T23’s at a time simultaneously it stands to reason that they could build a C2 plus a module for a C1 simultaneously. Get BVT to build the C3’s at portsmouth where they built Clyde. Goven, can build a C1 block or two, Barrows can build a block (they’ll have just finished building CVF blocks), plus Appledore and Cammel and Laird can also build blocks if needed. If you decided you wanted UK built MARS ships as well, you could build them at Harland and Wolff.

As far as i am aware, the ships will be receiving only CAMM, they will not be getting Aster 15. However, CAMM can be quadpacked in a Sylver VLS (assuming A50 size). Since CAMM will also be replacing the Rapier SAM’s, it should be produced in large numbers, and one of the aims of the system was to design the missile to be cheap.

I could now say that the German XIc boats had 1200ts and a range of 25.000nm, and that size and range are not … (But I’m aware of the difference in tank construction).

AUD25G is enormous for six SSKs. They could buy Astutes for that money. Makes me believe that number is 2.5 times 10G, with those 10G as acquisition price. Would still almost buy Astutes.

You are aware that a Collins and a 214 have about the same endurance, only Collins being faster? Your ranges are while snorkeling.

Regarding the crew size: Not sure about the 214, but the 212A are built for a combat duty cycle of 24hrs-day/6-6-6-6 (the same as the British subs), meaning double crew. Does the RAN operate on the USN 18hrs-day/6-6-6 cycle with tripple crews or the RN cycle?

You know this here?
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/Pubs/rp/2001-02/02RP04.pdf
Things Google finds …

Threshold spec seems to have been for 10.000nm and 70 days at sea.
Also interesting, they say 250% of the acquisition cost (new) as 25 years LCC.
And they also say that the building location and the deep maintenance location should be idential.

Funny how the Australian govt went to extra length to keep the Krauts out. 😀 (slide 26 et seq of the pdf — didn’t work, AMT is still there!), and later to get GD in.
That is actually interesting, in case the USN ever jumps its shadow and goes for a handful of SSKs. The AUS-USA-JAP boat.
Yip, maybe it’s true. After buidling a whole industry for just six boats, having it nationalized, they are hankering for more work.
But now the Germans are much stronger and consolidated.

Anyway. Question again: Is the labyrinth of Islands to the northwest open ocean? Last time they chose a company with extensive littoral experience, and no open ocean experience. Doesn’t seem to matter much.

Why they were chosen at the time is irrelivent, what is relevent is that they stuffed up big time with the program and wont get another chance. Besides, i have a vague memory that they got bought out by one of the german shipyards.

Mystery patrol craft starts trials out of Lurssen Werft yard

The first of a new class of patrol craft believed to be destined for the Royal Brunei Navy (RBN) has commenced sea trials from German shipbuilder Lürssen Werft’s Bremen yard.

Named Ijhtihad and bearing the pennant number 17, its construction has remained a closely guarded secret: neither Lürssen nor the Brunei government have ever acknowledged a contract for new vessels, although industry sources have for some time suggested that the Bremen yard was under contract to the sultanate for an undisclosed number of ships.

Lürssen continues to refuse to comment on Ijhtihad . However, information transmitted by the vessel’s automatic identification system identifies the craft as being under the Brunei flag.

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jni/jni090520_1_n.shtml

Why were the three ships for Brunei that are still parked on the clyde rejected again?

Not sure Australia has enough technology to offer for a cooperation.
And possibly not enough financial and human resources for it either.
A one-off programme wouldn’t pay without follow on work – which would be what?

Guess local production of an adapted 214, like the Koreans did and the Turks will do, is their best bet.

But time is a factor. Needs to be decided fast. From order to service entry five years is low, if some local stuff should go in two years more are realistic. Even when started in 2010 with one per year it would be 2025 before the flotilla has any real combat capability.

What are you going on about? 214 goes nowhere near reaching the requirements of the RAN. If there is not cooperation with Japan (the only nation with similar conventional sub requirements) then the collins class replacements would likely be entirely home grown, possibly with some american input.

First Replacement sub is to enter service in 2025. Last budget i heard for the subs was along the lines of $25 billion AUD for 6 subs, they’ve now increased the requirement to 12 subs though, so that number will be going up.

Collins class were designed with Swedish help, however the swedish input in the design, plus in the welding of the bow of the first sub (sweden built the first bow) left little to be desired, thus the replacement boat program will be kept as far from the swedes as possible.

As for the financial resources of Australia, we’ve just purchased 24 Super Hornets and will be buying ~100 F35’s. Not to mention that the RAAF is currently receiving its new AWAC’s and Tankers (the same tanker that airbus won the USAF competition with). Orders for the AWAC’s aircraft have since been placed by several nations including Turkey and South Korea.

Navy is currently already getting a pair of 30,000t LHD’s and 3, possibly 4 Aegis Destroyers.

Again, it wouldn’t have mattered with the platform limitations. They could be proficient in the TNC-42s and it really wouldn’t have mattered one bit. Platform instability and vibrations an dpoor sensor locations resulting in multipathing etc would still have prevented the FCRs from tracking the helis, proficient crew or not. That was the conclusion gained, and why FACs pretty much fell out of favour.

With the ‘necessary support’, the total system cost would be just as much as that required for a frigate, without the inherent limitations that a FAC suffers from. That’s why FACs are considered failures in terms of their promise.

Once you have the system in place, you can buy as many FAC’s as you would like though. For example I REALLY wouldn’t want to go up against the massed PLAN missile boat squadrons without an aircraft carrier carrying LOTS of strike fighters.