Let’s not forget the CVNs are designed for airwings of around 90 planes so that could bump above what you’ve got listed there.

Yes, but they did say based on the current situation, and i didn’t want to hurt their feelings too much.

Fast forward to 2014 and i’d have to say:

CVF > Kutzenov
2 x T45 > Kirov
4x T23 > 4 x Russian Destroyers
2 x Astute > 2 x Oscar/Akula etc

Not to mention that the RN would be able to field 2 Carrier groups like this by 2016, with a third group based around a pair of LPH’s (Ocean plus Ark Royal if it is retained)

Arguably the Absalon wouldn’t necessarily be a bad option for basing it on. Take the Absalon and:

– put on the the Thales S1850M radar
– install a pair of 8-cell Sylver A43 launchers, quad packed with CAMM
– switch to the British main gun, i.e. either the 4.5in Mk8, or the new 155mm
– install Sonar 2087, as used on the T-23 (and probably C-1 in future)
– put in a full Flag command facility

All of this should combine to produce a pretty good command ship, at a relatively modest cost. Granted, it lacks the AAW and land attack capabilities of the originally proposed ship, but it would probably end up costing less than a T45-based C-1 (since it is basically much the same kit, plus the S1850M and command facilities; but all on a cheaper hull). In practice, you would probably use the Danish patrol frigate derivative, i.e. basically an Absalon, minus the vehicle deck, and with four instead of two diesels. This would make it capable of keeping up with the normal fleet, and capable of acting as an ASW taskforce leader (though ideally for that, I would want a bit more than just CAMM…). Four or so of these might be a good way to round out the fleet, e.g. eight each of T-45 and C-1, plus four of these for the ‘high’ end of the fleet.

For that matter, the Danish patrol frigate concept might not be an insane basis for the C-2 and C-3, albeit probably scaled down a bit. The idea of a cheap, spacious hull could be worthwhile, providing ample space for a load of MCM and maritime interdiction/patrol gear. A long production run of these ships would then allow a common C-2/-3 line, potentially using the previously mooted modular weapons/systems fit. I know these Danish ships are a lot bigger than we had discussed, but it should be possible to go scale them down a bit. A 4,000 ton scaled down version, with a pair of Wartsila 16V38 (11kW each, i.e about 15,000hp each) diesels, as used on the CVF, should be pretty darned capable.

Between the two CVF’s, two Albions and 6 T45’s the RN have 10 ships with command ships either in service or on order. Compared to the 2 Albions, two LPDs and 4 T22’s that they currently have, their command facilities will be improved, ironic considering that the fleet is decreasing in size.

I have this certain hunch that Brazil’s next naval fighter is gonna be the Rafale.

Paid for…….how?

For me, a nuclear powered Kuznetsov type carrier is the best option. To place the Kirov reactor on a second Kuznetsov in order to maximize commonality with previous vessels looks fine. Then place 30 “Naval PAK-FA” on each one of the two carries.
Place one in the Arthic and one in the Pacific. Add to each carrier a respective Kirov :diablo: and their respective Oscar II, destroyers and SSN as escorts. Nothing in the Earth will be able to confront such groups.

A Royal Navy Group with 36+ F35’s on a CVF along with Astute, T45 and C1 could match that Group.

Similarly, a USN carrier Group with 48+ F-18E/F and F35C could match it.

I would do some things around the edges. You may be aware but the UK keeps a register of militarily useful civilian ships on the British register that runs to quite a few vessels. I would advocate a ‘super list’ for ships that as part of their original design are fitted for but not with weapons and naval equipment that could be useful if the balloon went up.

These would all be civilian vessels and vessels owned by the numerous government agencies that operate vessels up to 80 m or so. Typical features would be strengthened decks for gun mountings large flat decked sterns that could take a helicopter, tankers that are rigged for at sea ship to ship transfers of fuel (Some already have this but the Navy don’t say which ones). Typical vessels that might qualify are oil field service vessels, large trawlers, small offshore RoRo ferries like Calmac operate in Scotland. This lot wouldn’t be perfect but it would at least mean that there might be something to fall back on if needed. It woulnd’t necessarily cost that much either.

The RN should then invest in containerised weapons sytems so that a ship could be converted from a civilian role to something more warlike in the space of a week or so.

In return for this the government would pay a small amount towards the vessels purchase to reflect the modifications and some sort of retainer or tax breaks would be put in place for the inconvenience caused to the owners

Its an Armed Merchant Cruiser 😮

Following on from the recent thread on expanding the fleet – what if the reverse is true? A depressing scenario, perhaps, but probably more in keeping with the (grim)times: Assume a need to reduce Annual Government expenditure across the Board by… say 15% 😮

What should the Royal Navy lay up or dispose in order to meet this target? In other words, where should the cuts fall and what is the hold at all costs element?

6 T45, 12 Direct T23 replacements for a total of 18 escorts.
Cuts to the MCM fleet.
Ark Royal not retained as an LPH, Ocean replaced, Argus not replaced.
Cuts to the rest of the RFA fleet.
Cuts to the number of days spent at sea.

I vote for……………..Send in the SBS !

Storm the cargo ship, seize the pirates, evacuate the crew then sink the vessel (the last thing Africa needs is more military hardware being pumped into it). Job done!

Yes, I do live in an over simplistic world….but someone has to!:)

Park HMS Ocean Down there, fill it up with Merlins and the Gunship version of lynx along with a bunch of Para’s or Royal Marine’s to back up SAS and SBS units. use UAV’s to track suspect boats, the SAS and SBS to keep an eye on the place, and then send in the cavalry via Mr Merlin with Mr Lynx taking out anything looking remotely fortified.