Moon_light :
come on do you even read ????
No , the F-16 doesn ‘t have any missile warning system .
The Danes and the Norvegians can use a pod to get the capability , which is a different matter .
First , those are not Blk60s , secondly , if you need to carry every pod in the World to get MWS , IRST , LWS , TV , etc when a clean Rafale has it and with the embedded sensor fusion , you begin to understand what is a 4th gen aircraft and what is a 4.5 gen aircraft . 😎
do you have any source for this
No , only rumors . Also , it seems that the ICMS MkIII has decent ELINT/SIGINT capabilities :
The ICMS integrated countermeasures suite Mirage 2000s delivered to overseas Air Forces are equipped with the ICMS countermeasures suite developed by Thales, which incorporates high-sensitivity detection, electromagnetic jamming and deception functions.
Mirage 2000s currently on delivery are equipped with the ICMS Mk3, which is all-digital and uses advanced jamming techniques tailored to today’s electromagnetic environments. ICMS Mk3 also incorporates passive ELINT and high-precision localisation functions.
Loke :
Thus I am not very optimistic that we will see anything able to compete against the F-35.
Well , on paper it ‘s true . Until 2018 at the earliest , we can only guess .
By that time , we could well see some sort of T-50 of J-20 starting to fly here and there . Also , the Eurocanards in 2018 will be formidable machines if we have to believe the various road maps .
Will the F-35 be a good multirole fighter ? Affordable to buy and to maintain ?
The news we keep having for some years now are not very bright to say the least .
Cheers .
Moon_light :
F-16 block do have missile warning system
No it hasn ‘t .
Newer generation aircraft , when compared to F-teens , also have a different airframe made of newer materials . The F-16 airframe is built with about 80% aviation-grade aluminum alloys, 8% steel, 3% composites, and 1.5% titanium .
“3% composites” .
Aircraft like Eurofighter and Rafale are mostly made of composites (80-85%) :
Same with the F-35 .
Composites are radar transparent , not steel and aluminium . Often , we read that Typhoon and Rafale have a rather big vertical tail (which is true) so it must show as a big spike . Not at all , it is mostly made of radar transparent material and RAM is used here and there on the aircraft (advantage to Rafale here) .
what exactly are the Spectra ‘s features that falcon edge IEWS dont have ?????
To start with , better active antennas . The direction finding is also better since the UAE said that the ICMS MkIII onboard the M2000-9 do a better job than the Falcon Edge at finding target with precision . Spectra is at least equal to ICMS MkIII .
Then , I wander how the threat library is and how it is managed . Do you think that the Falcon Edge suite comes with any library to start with ? Maybe , maybe not .
Falcon Edge is a comprehensive ECM suite , one of the best the US ever made but its job in the ELINT/SIGINT field is secondary where this is Spectra ‘s main mission . The “self-defense” part in Spectra (like close-in jamming , chaffs/flares) happens only if the LO concept failed . The primary purpose of Spectra is to manage the entire battlefield at hand in RF bands , in the visible and in the IR spectrums . From there , it compares its findings with the uploaded flight plan and update the picture in real time , filtering what is useful for the pilot and what is not (also depending on the various filters used by the pilot) and can propose options to evade the detected threat(s) . To archive this , the system has various means at hand and a very important one is the the long range TV . Because of it , the pilot knows very quickly if it is friend or foe 😎 . Falcon Edge can ‘t do that .
It is actualy easy to grasp the concept when you are not the USA . The USA have probably the best Intels , the best electronic Eyes in the sky (at all altitude) , so they design some very capable systems build to work within a good to huge workframe .
When you are a smaller Nation and when you have only a medium workframe , the systems must be even more multirole that they should , just to compensate . Look at the Gripen NG capabilities in sharing the findings 😉
During debrief , the data downloaded from Spectra are put to good use and they often call for a different planning or for a new mission .
I ‘m not too sure if falcon Edge can do that and if it does , how is the interaction with the other systems .
Cheers .
Jo :
Rafale probably doesn’t even have this (already available on the Dassault Falcon’s HDDs)
Do you know how much it cost ?! 😮 The falcon 7X is a private jet equipped with every gizmos a pilot can dream of ! It is a kind of “show-off” aircraft a very rich business man like to … show-off . Yesterday , the French president F. Hollande flew to Mali in one of them .
Hopsalot :
the Rafale has areas of weakness compared to an F-16 Block 60
Which ones ? Care to elaborate ?
In Switzerland three aircraft met the Swiss requirements, and the Swiss chose the cheapest. (Gripen)
Negatif . Only two aircraft met the Swiss requirements :
The Swiss went for a futur aircraft , the Gripen NG which is still a prototype .
They trusted Saab to deliver what was written on the tin .
Hopsalot , you also make a reference to the UAE asking more from Dassault and its Partners regarding Spectra , RBE2 and the engines .
I would have done the same 🙂
They clearly asked for a radar better than the AN/APG-80 or at least equivalent . They have it with the RBE2-AA .
Spectra ‘ s last upgrade is from 2 years ago and soon , the entire system is going to get a brand new core using GaN MMICs technology . This in itself promise outstanding capabilities , it ‘s going to more than double the power at hand , multiply the beam forming while being economical on the Watts and easier to cool down if needed .
The actual engines are fine even with planned very heavy configurations like this one (asked by the UAE) :
Mercurius :
Any idea how many of the stores shown on that diagram are actually integrated and cleared for service?
Most of them bare two LGB variants , the Amraam , the Asraam and the rocket pod .
Cheers .
Sorry Gentlemen , I ‘m gonna be off topic for 5 minutes .
Hopsalot , you ‘ve been often wrong and one more time you have posted something without doing a good homework first . Before to type silly things on your keyboard , why don ‘t you read a bit on the net first ?
Sometimes , 10 minutes are enough to make sure that what you are going to post is correct .
You said :
The UAE picked the F-16 over the Rafale for some pretty simple reasons, it was more capable. It had a better radar, a better EW system, and a far better selection of armaments.
No , the F-16 Blk 60 “Desert Falcon” is not more capable than the Rafale . While being the best Viper and a formidable multirole fighter , it doesn ‘t fly as good as the Rafale , its RCS is bigger and its T/W ratio is inferior (even with its F110-GE-132 engine) .
You said better radar ? Well , while the AN/APG-80 Aesa is an excellent radar , the RBE2-Aesa is also an excellent radar and to be honest , I see them on the par .
Better EW system ? Well , while the Falcon edge IEWS is a hell of a piece of kit , it lacks some of Spectra ‘s features , notably in the ELINT/SIGINT field .
The F-16 doesn ‘t have a laser warning system and it doesn ‘t have a passive IR system like the DDM-NG . It doesn ‘t have a LRF , it doesn ‘t have an IRST/FLIR like the OSF onboard Rafale and it doesn ‘t have a long range TV either . It doesn ‘t land on a Carrier .
Now , you also said a better selection of armaments ? Well , look at the Rafale ‘s operational armory :
Good toolbox , isn ‘t it ?
There are also many things in the pipe line like this new 3D bi-color HUD , a World first :
If you think that a 3D bi-color HUD is no big deal , think twice . It has been a real challenge and as I said , it is a World first .
Things like Aesa cheek arrays are also in the pipe line , etc … While the Rafale is now a mature aircraft , it is going to be further improved .
The French also have the idea of a special tripod (inner wing pylons and central pylon) to hold boosters to launch micro Satellites into orbit .
The goal is to loft a 150-250 kg payload into a 800 km orbit.
Video CGI :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpiR0SqdUPM
You see Hopsalot , the Rafale is indeed half a generation ahead and the road is open and not close like with the F-16 .
Cheers .
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