MSphere:

I have been working in development sector for nearly 25 years and trust me, son, I have seen many new products which didn’t meet key requirements and still made it into series. Hell, some of them were not even as good as their predecessors.. Who cares? Life goes on…

Héhé … That reminds me the … Bradley 😉
I guess you know the story …

Cheers .

MSphere :

The program is not more advanced than Russian T-50 is today

I agree and maybe it is the very reason why the YF-23 program could be restarted (99% unlikely) .
But it ‘s a nice thought :rolleyes:

You would be better served by granting funds for Boeing’s 6th gen program, instead.

Uh ?:confused: Such thing exists ?

Cheers .

Jessmo, I repeat what I told you already :

Do I need to try to explain to you (again) why the points 1,4,5,6,7,8,9 are just BS ?
No , because it gets tiring to always repeat the same things over and over again .

I am really sorry Jess and with all your respect , I can ‘t repeat myself endlessly …

Cheers .

From the start , I found it strange not to read more about it in the French official press and various mags .

As Phaid reported correctly , even the CdG “journal de bord” is not saying much , which is rather unusual .
But for sake of honesty , only 7 Rafales were onboard the CdG during PEAN 2009 . So yes, it was most probably a very small exercise .

Cheers .

Jessmo :

Are you telling me that with all of the wild conspiracy theories there isn’t 1 shred of anti- American sentiment?

No , but there is 90% shred of anti-biased fanboy .
Jess , you are not very knowledgeable about the F-22 , you pull rabbits out of fake hats , you do copy/paste without fully understand what you read and/or post here (and elsewhere) , etc .

First, why don ‘t you do a very simple thing to start with : You search the Net for any official paper or study regarding the F-22 , its technology , the “know-how” behind it , etc .
You save everything on your drive and then you try to understand the ins and outs . It takes time but it is the only way to learn and to be able to speak about it without taking the risk to look stupid , or to spread BS .

For example , I have a folder called “Rafale” on my external HD where I store about everything regarding the Rafale since 1994 , including personal notes and links .
The folder is big , a bit more than 8 gig 🙂 .

There are so many inaccuracies , mistakes and errors in your posts that it becomes very hard for the rest of us to explain and re-explain everything , page after page .

I give you an example again Jessmo :
in your post #219 , only :

2. The Rafale lacks modes that the block 60 F-16 has.

and

3. The Mica has less range than the AMRAAM

is true . The rest is wrong (or false , depends on how you see it) . Do I need to try to explain to you (again) why the points 1,4,5,6,7,8,9 are just BS ?
No , because it gets tiring to always repeat the same things over and over again .

I show you another example , you said :

The other aircraft aren’t using stealthy datalinks, which is why they’re more vulnerable to detection than is the F-22

Two (2) mistakes in one little sentence .
1) yes the other aircraft are also using “stealthy” (?) datalinks .
2) detecting datalinks and more importantly knowing where they come from is (at this present time) near to impossible .
We call it “secure” and not “stealthy” by the way .

I also know that data can be transmitted with an AESA radar to another AESA radar , but the radars need to see each other (you can ‘t “talk” to the fighter behind you) .

Basically , many of the points you are trying to make have the word “ignorance” written all over it .
And from what I can read on these pages , I am not the only one to think this way …

Cheers .

Wrightwing , you are trying to “drown the fish” as we say in France , you ‘re in search for bad excuses .

If I was you , I would leave the dogfight job to another aircraft , like the F-16 Blk52 😉 The F-22 is not designed for to start with and it does a very average job at it to say the least .
It is rather easy to say that the F-22 will always enter into the fight in the optimum conditions because of this and that , don ‘t you think ?
Then , LOAL will not change a thing as we ‘re talking LOBL : the capability for the IR missile to lock by itself before leaving the rail .

The F-22 is a BVR Interceptor , not a dogfighter even if it has one of the best agility around if not the best .

Cheers .

Wrightwing :

Did you not read the link.

Yes I did and we ‘re on the same wavelengh 🙂
Read what I replied : Spud , the -9M still has a very short PoV . It can ‘t see anything over the aircraft ‘s nose to start with , and the vertical plane is of the utmost importance in dogfight .
………………………
Regarding the video posted showing the -9M being deployed , you should now all understand why the F-22 is at disadvantage during dogfight : it takes ages for the 9M to fire because of the safety reasons involved in firing from bays . You can also add the 1.5 second before firing …

Look how a Mica is leaving its rail and at what speed it does it (!) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnuMXLMvkx8
after 1:38 .
ANY external IR short range missile shot (Mica , Archer , Python , ASRAAM , etc ) will get in the air quicker .
No doubt .

Cheers .

AK :

I’m asking you to explain your use of the words “wings level” in combination with the words “sustained high AOA”.

Those words are from Scorpion82 , there are not mine .
They don ‘t make any sense but I understood what HE meant .
You also did or you wouldn ‘t be asking 😉

There is nothing in the term “dogfight” that stipulates what type of armament may or may not be used.

True . I am sorry but I like to think that the F-22 will be used in its optimal configuration : clean .
If it does carry external -9Ms , it is a different story , of course .

Just curious…but do you base your opinions on actual experience or just what you’ve read or heard about?

I am not a pilot . While my military own experience is with the French Air Force , it doesn ‘t help me on these fighter boards . I am just a knowledgeable amateur (I like to think so) . 🙂

I’m more interested in capabilities other than armament type…what is it about the F-22 that you use to rest your opinion on?

I use open sources , a bit like the rest of us , and my intelligence . Nothing more .
I also have very few contacts but they don ‘t help much very often .
I do like the F-22 very much and I would rather have it as an Interceptor than a Rafale but it is not the panacea .
For the past 10 years , I have been saying that it is the best a2a platform but it lacks a lot to make it a true , true killer .
It deserves an “OSF” (IRST , TV , LRF) and long range IR Missiles .

Cheers .