EE :

Well, firstly. You’ve contradicted yourself. You stated earlier ASRAAM isn’t BVR.

Hang on ! I ‘ve NEVER said that EE , never . Don ‘t put words in my mouth , thanks 😉 .

Secondly. I do wonder about trajectory, height and speed of launch and what have you. I can’t help but also wonder that such scenarios are set up to give the best results for such missiles.

We don ‘t really know about that but what we know is this : since the F2 version , Rafale can use the IR Mica in the 4 modes set by the DGA , Fox 1 to Fox 4 . We also know the range : 60km+ proven and up to 80km .
No other Western IR missile has these capabilities . Fact . 🙂

So it begs the question of needing MICA when you already have ASRAAM and Meteor. MICA might have a longer range than ASRAAM but its not compelling enough to be ‘better suited’.

The Asraam/Meteor combo is perfect (I would like to see an IR Meteor too) .
This is the reason why the IR Mica is very usefull . When you are an adverse pilot and you study the French missile , you have to give the system a very good look because it is in itself a deadly threat at very long range . It can be fired very early in the fight , it has a great basket and acquisition range , it has excellent end game manoeuvrability and is flares resistant .
Even so , an aircraft has only that much IR flares so , when to launch them ?
When do you start to loose speed by banking hard to avoid the kill ?
Your RWR is of no use , only your missile warning receiver (if you have one) can help you to launch at the right time (if it ‘s a good system) .
Fighting an IR BVR missile is very stessfull .
The Russian tactic is to fire a salvo of EM/IR missile BVR to try to make the opponent call “mission kill” . Same with the Rafale .

During testing , M2000-5 pilots found that they were left to wander what to do when opposed to this kind of scenario against Rafales .

Cheers .

Look at this , carefully :

It is a beautifull shot . 🙂
Without the faceted shapes , it reminds me of the F-117 : a very fat body .
Knowing the thrust ratio , how do you want this aircraft to accelerate like a Viper , a Su-27 , a J-10 , a Rafale or a Typhoon ??

How many F-35s have been already built ?
For how long it has been flying ?
How many pictures do we have with a full external load ? Any ?

This Aircraft is merely capable of flying over Mach 1 , can ‘t drop anything (internal) yet at more than supersonic speed , its RAM is peeling off in supersonic , it has cracks all over the airframe , etc … (I leave aside hundreds of other problems)
Yet , LM wants everybody to believe that this aircraft is gonna be some kind of super dooper jet . Well , it doesn ‘t look like it so far .
It ‘s a flying brick with the best gizmos around . Is it going to be enough ?

Cheers .

EE :

I’ll take the RAF’s word for it, it is a BVR capable missile, capable at what BVR range we simply don’t know. So lets say the NEZ of ASRAAM is 30km, who says a target can’t be engaged at that range with Meteor?

Well , this is what MBDA say :

ASRAAM’s maximum range is uncontested, and no other short-range air-to-air missile comes near to this capability, providing the ability to passively home beyond the limits of visual range and well into the realm traditionally thought of as Beyond Visual Range.

http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/ASRAAM_background.pdf

R-73 Archer ‘s range is 30km+ (this is already BVR) , AIM-9X is around 35km (this is already BVR) , Asraam should be around 45km (so , it ‘s BVR) . As a reminder , Mica is given for 60-80km .

Now , you can of course engage at 30km with a Meteor but it ‘s better to use it at longer range , don ‘t you think ?

Cheers .

Mercurius :

If these missiles have a LOAL capability, it must be minimal.

Who knows ?
I know that it is a different matter but the Matra Magic 2 acquisition range was known to be 23km in a clear sky . Mica has a better acquisition range said to be around 30-35km which is why it ‘s used as a small interim IRST .

A number of articles of stealth in the technical press have used figures of between -30 and -40dB/sq m (0.001 – 0.0001 sq m), but that may be optimistic.

Yep , waaay too optimistic .

Cheers .

With regard to the F-35 acceleration …

It was first said :

acceleration from Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2 at 30,000 ft. in 61 sec

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/F35-030509.xml

But :

Then :

Most impacted is the Navy’s F-35C, which has had more than 43 seconds added to its Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2 acceleration times

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2013/01/pentagon-lowers-f-35-performan.html

So now , it takes 144 seconds (16 sec short of 2 minutes) . Dazzling 😀
It is way more than it takes a Rafale C with M88-2E4 to accelerate from Mach 0.9 to Mach 1.8 @ 30.000ft :p

That F-35 , what a “sprinter” ! lol …

Cheers .

Btw Loke , you said :

although I appreciate that some of your nonsense postings have triggered some very informative and sensible postings from knowledgeable people like Mercurius and others, I have a feeling most people are becoming fed up.

Really ? Fed up with what ? With me ?
So please Gentlemen , tell me if you are fed up with me , thank you . I can take it 😉

If you could please ensure to have all your claims backed up (e.g., with links to reputable sources) before posting them then that would be extremely helpful.

I do when it is useful and when someone is asking . Are you ?
Anyway and from where I stand , it seems that you go personal and I can ‘t see any reason for .

Cheers .

Picard :

I believe that F-35’s frontal RCS was downgraded from VLO to LO, that would give 0,25 – 1 m2?

It should be a bit less than that , around 0.1 m2 .

Dassault said that from head-on , a clean M2000 has a RCS of 2 m2 and Rafale ‘s RCS from head-on is a 10th of that : 0.2 m2 , which is twice the size of the F-35 ‘s RCS and 5,5 times the RCS of F-22 .

A F-16 Blk25 has a RCS of 5 m2 , a Su-27 12 m2 , a F-15C 18 m2 .

That would mean that a F-35 (APG-81) can detect a Mica loaded Rafale at around 110km when the Rafale (RBE2-AA) would only detect the F-35 at 50km max . The same Rafale would detect a F-22 at 28-30km .
That sounds about right .

Cheers .