What about the Gripen ?
What about the futur Gripen-NG ?
To be honest and to stick to my belief , I have more trust in Saab than in the Typhoon people about stealth matters .
Saab know what they are doing and while being a small Company , they have the brains , the knowledge and the facilities to do some very interesting stuff .
I praise them ๐
With the Gripen , they went for a “discrete” airframe and a low frontal RCS . The fighter itself is smaller than the other Eurocanards , fast , very agile .
It boost one of the best intra data-link there is within NATO .
When you are another NATO fighter , it is very easy to work with the Gripen and to interleave tasks . It has been made for ๐
In itself , it is a little gem .


From any angle , I bet that the Gripen has a lower RCS than the SH ๐
Cheers .
It is always very hard to put one prototype against another prototype .
Just for the sake to be understood , in 2020 , I take any Russian T-50 (or else) over an upgraded F-35 , easily ๐
Cheers .
Thanks jackjack , but we can read Wiki too ๐ก
Try better and say what you have to say . I ‘m fed up with you , you keep posting basics like a 14 years old Google fan .
Cheers .
By the way , a nice pdf on the Super Hornet :
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2007psa_apr/gaddis.pdf
If you don ‘t have it , it is well worth it ๐
Cheers .
Let ‘s have a look at the F18 E/F stealth features .
We know that Boeing made extensive work to bring the RCS down .
First , the aircraft is very different from the basic Hornet . It is more than 1m longer , 1m more in wingspan , 25% more wing area , nearly 3tons heavier , it is also slightly higher .
It is not really a “scaled-up” F-18 , it is a very different airframe .They share very little .
Basic Hornet RCS : 5m2

The US Navy took a “balanced approach” to survivability in its design , with a focus on Radar , ECMs and stand-off delivery . I can post various links but trust me on that and let ‘s continue ๐
Boeing worked mostly on the frontal RCS :
The design of the engine inlets reduces the aircraft’s frontal radar cross section. The alignment of the leading edges of the engine inlets is designed to scatter radiation to the sides. Fixed fanlike reflecting structures in the inlet tunnel divert radar energy away from the rotating fan blades.

When you look at the picture , we can see that Boeing did a nice work . It took them the need to use again the 3D CGI tools to re-build it from scratch and it shows .
(in this regard (stealth) , I believe that Boeing is more advanced than LM , but that ‘s my opinion)
Nevertheless , they had to keep the huge LERXs because they are what make the F-18 a decent flyer .
The aircraft only has to pitch its nose up or down by 3 degrees and we get a fuc***-up RCS . Same if the aircraft is banking left or right , it doesn ‘t matter .
If it does both , the aircraft ‘s RCS from up front will be the same than a normal F-18 , probably bigger since the aircraft is bigger .
The huge LERXs are a low RCS killer .:mad:
The very same LERXs are not even blended into the airframe or wings !:mad:
They don ‘t even show a smooth angle with the fuselage ! ๐ก
Then , people are telling me that the SH has a RCS close or similar than the Rafale ‘s RCS ? ๐ฎ
Me , I am telling you that the SH ‘s RCS is bigger than 1m2 from up front and over 5m2 from the sides .
Cheers .
Kirtap :
Well, I think most of them (gripen, f-22, eurofighter, rafale) source from hexcel
This is an excellent find ๐
I knew when starting this thread that I was going to stir some good stuff :):cool: More we learn , better we know .
jackjack , try to understand once for all that I am NOT here for a pissing contest , please . I thank you for giving us the link at F-16.net which was another eye opener . That being said , it is all you have done . So , don ‘t try to get more credit than you deserve . Again , thank you ๐
I think that we can agree on one thing : the Dassault Rafale is not a stealth fighter but a “discrete” fighter .
Which is what I ‘ve been saying for about 10 years !:mad:
Cheers .
12F , thumb up ๐
Cheers .
I knew of this feature but it is really nice to have some more infos on it ๐
The pdf provided on F-16.net are neat . I am studying them right now and I learn a bit more , lovely ๐ .
a new low-observability (LO) substance called fiber mat.
Lockheed officials avoided the need to use stealthy appliquรฉs and coatings by curing the substance into the composite skin of the aircraft
Dassault also has its own fiber mat which is also a part of the composite skin airframe (wings and vertical fin) . See it on video (at 4:12)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=douzAeXkjo4
But while Rafale only use RAM and RA paint , the F-35 also use a Radar Absorbing Structure and Infrared (IR) Topcoat .
I didn ‘ t know . So I was wrong to say that only the B2 and F-22 had this type of coating . ๐ฎ
Well , I ‘ve learned something ๐
******************
jackjack , the RCS of Rafale is indeed 0.1m2 (maybe 0.2m2 ?) , data from Dassault .
Then , I read :
The F-35 is about 42% composite by weight, Burbage says, compared to the F-22 at 22% and the F-16 at 2%.
The Rafale is about 30% composite by weight . Slight advantage to the F-35 but it ‘s better than the F-22 . The Typhoon is also around 30% , I don ‘t know about the Gripen or T-50 .
Just to say that the Europeans are not asleep ๐

Cheers .
No comment .
Cheers .
Lindermyer :
BW you are using a very oversimplified analogy. Im guilty of it to I talk of radio waves bouncing or being reflected – now for typical convos this suffices however if youre trying to get into radar theory, then there are some serious flaws in the above.
Radar in not reflected it is reradiated as such rather than bouncing off the panel it is absorbed and reradiated – so potentially can be transmitted from a spike / edge.
I agree ๐
It doesn ‘t go against what I said , in fact .
Cheers .
But the remainder of incoming RF behaves very differently as it attaches to an airplane’s surface, can turn a corner and then scatter when it encounters an electrical discontinuity.
Really ? Gimme a paper on it please .
Cheers .
djcross , EMR don ‘t run or creep along anything . ๐ก
Light waves, radio waves, microwaves, and radar waves are all examples of electromagnetic waves. Unlike water waves, electromagnetic waves do not require a medium such as water or air to travel through. They can travel through a complete vacuum. Similar to light waves, radar waves bounce off some objects and travel through others.
The simplest mode of radar operation is range-finding, or determining how far away an object is. The radar unit sends radar waves out toward the target (radar systems can send out thousands of pulses per second). The waves hit the target and are reflected back. The returning wave is received by the radar unit, and the travel time is registered. According to basic principles of physics, distance is equal to the rate of travel (speed) multiplied by the time of travel. All electromagnetic waves travel at the same speed in a vacuumโthe speed of light, which is 186,282 miles (299,727 kilometers) per second.
From http://www.scienceclarified.com/Qu-Ro/Radar.html
Cheers .
Ouch ! ๐ฎ
Cheers .
djcross then MigL :
RF energy runs along the exterior surface…../snip/….The way EMR creeps along the surface
I wouldn ‘t put it this way . EMR tend to “bounce” on anything they hit actually .
This is the reasons behind stealth “shapes” where EMR are bouncing away from the emitter and RAM to absorb the “bounces” .
It is also for the same reasons than I say that the frontal RCS of the Rafale is lower than the Typhoon ‘s .
Cheers .
Jason :
Is that a Have Glass II modified F-16, or a standard one?
Standard .
It is why I acknowledged the late 1.2m2 .
mrmalaya :
i shall assume then that the use of a sarcastic expression is a lost in translation thing shall i?
Yes . I used “rolling eyes” because I didn ‘t know what it was .
Cheers .