sekantWhen the British troops left Syria (by the way a Roman name) in 1946, Syria become independent really. The mandate time of France after WWI aside.
After WWI Great Britain and France draw their lines of intrest with the ‘Lions-share’ for Great Britain, so I stick to Great Britain , when it came to those three named countries, just to keep things short and simple.
France is responsible at least for the border of Syria with Lebanon, France being the mandated power for the entire Syria-Lebanon region from 1919 onwards, in accordance with the Sykes-Picot agreement and later discussions between Clémenceau and the Brits.
sekantPlease stick to history. It started in 1947 with the UN-vote, which was the ruling power in that area via Great Britain.
So you claim that before 1967 there were peacefull borders with Israel, do you?!
You want history, let us have history. It started even before the UN vote, with the terrorist activities of the Irgun, Stern et al.
In 1948, the UN decided to partition the former league of Nations mandate in an israeli state and an arab state. The UN decided to allot 55 % of the mandate to the israeli state and 45 % to the arab state.
Following the 1948 conflict, Israel to grab some land that had not been alloted to it. After this annexation, Israel was made up of 78 % of the former mandate, and 22 % was left for the arabs.
Today, the Palestinians asked that Israel leave them these 22 % to create their own state – but Israel seeks to grab even more territory. That what they tried to do under Camp David.
sekantWrong. All became national states, with borders drawn by Great Britain.
Wrong, France was as much responsible for the borders of Syria as Great Britain was.
sekantArafat is to blame that he tried double standards.!
Both Arafat and Israelis failed to respect their commitments regarding Oslo. The failings of Arafat are obvious. For its part, Israel increase the number of settles in the OT from 75,000 in 1992 to more than 300,000 in 1999, when it committed itself not to create fait accomplis on the ground in the Oslo agreement.
I still miss the deeper sense in firing “Kassam-rockets”, when the last Israeli left Gaza. To reach an agreement at all, both sides have to recognize each other at first. After that you can start serious negotiations at first. As a confidence builder, that has to go step by step. You can not have both at the same time, negotiations and a “civil-war” to avoid the word terror. .!
Condisering that Israel has never recognised Palestine, has declared that Palestinians did not exist and so on and so forth you are entirely right. And you are right, you cannot have negociations and at the same time collective punishment as meted out by the Israelis or fire rockets that kill civilians, including kids, day in day out.
The Palestinians are not ashamed to be fed by the UN and the Europeans, just to wage their “civil war”. !
Given that you occupy them, prohibit them to trade with the outside world, you should be paying for their survival and basic needs, not me as a European.
Nothing was “stolen”, but lost through violence/war. When starting violence/war you have to pay a price for that always!
Sorry mate, I dont quite recall the Palestinians starting anything in 1967. But I suppose that history should not stand in the path of your land grab.
sekantBetween 1948 and 1967 it was 100% of West Bank – and what? Who built what?
Sorry but I fail to see what you are talking about – you may want to develop your point/argument somehow !
sekantAccording to Ambassador Ross’s book, The Missing Peace, the territory offered to end the conflict, was contiguous. Most Arab countries, The EU, The UN, Russia, and the U.S., suggested that Arafat, sign the peace agreements at Camp David.
What was offered at Camp David has been mapped out, and clearly show that the West Bank was not offered as a continuous territory (many such maps can be found on the net). Ross, like many others, plays with the word contiguous to blame entirely the Palestinians (ie they purposefully do not use the term continuous). And please, read Camp David – the West Bank would have been separated by an Israeli road from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea, a road under Israeli control.
In addition, Camp David would have meant the Israeli annexation of 9-10% more of the West Bank. Another 9-10% of the West Bank would have have been placed under indefinite “Temporary Israeli Control”, including a strip along the border along the Jordan River.
So, again, so much for your generous offer of a non-viable State.
sekant97% of what the Palestinians themselves ASKED for, was offered at Camp David and Taba. They choose war and economic backwardness over a settlement. – What is new ?
The usual israeli PR machine.
The so-called generous offer of Barak at Camp David amounts at best to an insult. What was offered then was a West Bank cut up in three parts (ie cut off by Israeli annexation of two corridors to the Jourdain), a sizable part of the West Bank annexed by Israel, an Israeli buffer zone several miles deep along the Jourdain (meaning a total control of its water by Israel), an Israeli control of the Palestinian borders, air space and maritime space, a Palestinian terrritory crisscrossed by secured roads leading to setllements and reserved to settlers……
In other words, what was then offered was a non state and what was asked of the Palestinian was a total surrender of their basic aspirations. If I can agree that some of the methods chosen by the Palestinians to further their resistance and reach their goals are totally out of order (like blow up israeli civilians on israeli territory), that does not mean their fight illegitimate.
And, by the ways, to be willing to return a part of something that dont belong to you cannot be qualified as generous.
sekantYou say move in, I say return. Understand the difference?
Recent historic studies conclude that the majority of the Arab population which left the Israeli territories did so of their own free will, truly believing that the Jewish state will be destroyed in a matter of weeks, and were encouraged to do so by the region’s Arab leaders. Quite frankly, looking at the odds Israel had to survive, if I were a Palestinian back then, I would have listened and would leave, but that’s just me.
If the Arabs had accepted the 29/11/49 partition plan, most of them would have left the Israeli territories anyway, just like the Jewish people that lived in what was supposed to be their land.
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Erez,
I dont mean to pick up a fight or take part in this debate – there is nothing new in it – but I am somehow surprised by your above statement. I was, on the contrary, under the impression that recent history works in Israel tended to show that the role of jewish groups in the departure of countless of Arabs in 1948 had been underplayed, and that there was now a greater recognition of Israel responsability.
Benny Morris is probably the best known israeli historian arguing in this sense, although not the only one (i.e. B. Morris is probably the most famous of those historians since he now argues that the ethnic cleansing should have been more thorough so that today Israel would not have the “problem” they face with the Israeli arab population).
Could you therefore be so kind as to mention (name of book, historian) that you refer to??
sekantThanks for the article. I have one question though. What is the source of your statement that the Mistral has been exported to Pakistan ??? I would be interested in reading about it as this is news to me (I would be interested in figuring out the dates, quantities…). The fact that Bofors has been exported to Pakistan is know of everyone (you can find it in many publications), but that is not the case of the Mistral.
sekantMost likely shot down by Shiite militia under the command of the Iranians, using MANPADS smuggled from Iran. 😡
🙁
Given that several hundreds of MANPADS were plundered from Iraq weapon stockpiles during/following the US/UK invasion as those stockpiles were not secured, I sometimes fail to see why Iran should be drawn into this. But I suppose that some always need to blame others for their own shortcomings.
sekantYou will find all the current peacekeeping operations under the corresponding heading at the website of the DPKO (ie UN department of Peacekeeping operations).
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/index.asp
Please bear in mind though that there also exists some UN sanctionned peace operations that are implemented by military coalitions, such as NATO in Afghanistan (this is usually the takes when the level of “warfare” is too high for simple blue helmets). Owing to this fact, they do not appear in the list on the aforementionned website!!
sekantFolks,
In the 1980s Sweden’s Bofors developed a tripod MANPADS that used laser beam riding guidance. It is considered the only MANPADS that is totally immune to decoying or jamming.
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Not quite. This also applies to British systems. The most recent British MANPADS (the “Startreak”) also uses laser beam riding guidance, and is therefore also immune to flares and/or DIRCMs !!!
sekantI have always wondered why he changed his name from Bloch to Dassault after the war? Did he collaborate with the Germans?
Dassault was arrested by the Vichy regime in 1940 because he refused to collaborate with the occupying forces. He was eventually deported to Buchenwald because he continuously maintained his stand. He was one of those who resisted the Germans (even if he did not take up arms) !
sekantLager horrors? Big Budweiser drinker was he?
Dude,
If you are not aware of it, the term “lager” is the German word for camp. Marcel Dassault (a jew) was deported to Buchenwald, one of those german camps. I am not too sure this is something to be joked about !
sekantAre you sure about this number?Wouldnt we see more helicopters shot down then :confused:
Those are the “official” figures released by the US authorities (DCI in that case if I recall well, released in 2004).
What is never clear in this Manpads issue, though, is whether they mean that 4’000 missiles have disappeared, or 4’000 systems. Usually, you have several (4/5) missiles for each system/gripstock. So depending on what they talk about, the magnitude of th problem is not quite the same.
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