Trident,
Well it’s not against the people or industry… the gov could have just picked the JSF and talk about what a fantastic jet they were gonna buy but instead they launched a smear campaign against the Gripen project. They even sent out their crazy info to other countries now looking to buy jets like Croatia. They do this because they don’t want to see Gripens eat into LM’s market share.
franc,
Fuel is going to be max 1700L drop tanks on wings plus a centreline 1100L tank which is 3,6 tons in total externally just like the Saab info says.
7100 Kg is the weight they say. They slimmed down 200kg from the early estimates to 7100kg when they were finished. There’s nothing strange with that number.
Seen this Document ?
http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/AmericasDefenseMeltdownFullText.pdf
December 2, 2008
New Release: “America’s Defense Meltdown” (Press Release – Announcement)
Prepared by CDI’s Straus Military Reform Project, “America’s Defense Meltdown: Pentagon Reform for President Obama and the New Congress” is an urgently-needed new book that addresses the largest issue left untouched by the recent presidential campaign: the continuing collapse in America’s defenses and what to do about it.
[…]
The Air Force’s newest fighter, the F-35, can be regarded as only
a technical failure.Depending on which “independent” cost estimate one believes, the program could be underfunded by as much as $30 billion to $40 billion, and the schedule likely to slip up to two more years.
This serious situation borders on a fiasco for all three services involved in the F-35 program, but it is certainly a potential disaster for the Air Force. This is the inevitable consequence of the Air Force.
Freely Translated…
First meeting in N****y to see why they came up with such crazy high costs took place today,
After the meeting Saab says that their first thoughts that the numbers were too high has actually been strenghtened. On LCC saab was even more sure.
They will now do a detailed calculation with the new info and later present results.
Next week the N*******n defence minister will go to Sweden to explain why and how… and now we also know that even-though she met her counterpart just 2 days before the decision Sweden was only informed 15 minutes ahead of the announcement… (Saab got a whopping 24 minutes…)
Formally they had agreed on a 1 day notice.
http://www.tv2nyhetene.no/innenriks/politikk/article2451123.ece
——–
Do you have any info on top speed and supercruise on Gripen NG ?
No unfortunately not yet (and those things is rarely ever official info anyway), the max speed program was concluded only last month though and handling qualities with external stores is still being tested. The only official word out so far is that ‘acceleration is noticeably improved’.
I thought it was time to sum up the NG basics on a page with links to further reading.

GE F-414G equipped Gripen NG Demo during heavy stores trials
Gripen NG is only 4% heavier than JAS 39C but comes with over 20% more engine thrust.
The F-414G engine will provide 20 to 25% more thrust over the existing RM12.
The NG Demonstrator has flown the new airframe and engine since May 2008.
Test phase 1 has performed maximum speed trials and heavy stores flutter tests.
Test phase 2 to start from 2009 will include tests of new sensors such as AESA.
Gripen NG Basic Specs (1)
Number of Stations 10
Empty weight 7.1 ton
MTOW 16 ton
Internal fuel 3.3 ton
External fuel 3.8 ton
Payload >6 ton
Gripen NG Range (2)
Range is increased an average of 40% over the JAS 39C as both the internal and external fuel capability is expanded.
Combat radius: 1,300 Km + 30 minutes on station with A2A weapons.
Range (one-way): 2,500 Km on internal fuel
Ferry range (one-way): 4,075 Km with external fuel
Design notice (3)
To accomodate a higher airflow for the F-414G engine the forward intakes has been expanded by about an inch. These forward intakes is removable on all JAS 39 models for modifications. Installing the new engine into the NG Demonstrator was successful on first attempt with only minor adjustments. Two new ventral stations has been fitted to the central fuselage. The Demonstrator (a rebuilt JAS39B/D) is used to show possible upgrades to existing Gripens or solutions for completely new models.
Zedro,
So sorry to ruin ‘your thread’ with balance and fairness.
But you’re not. Fair would be to repeat what the armasuisse has stated after the test flights. For instance they didn’t say Gripen conducted 30 flights as you keep repeating.
They said “about 30” which is clearly not a firm number. There’s flexibility on those 30.
The flight and ground tests with the first candidate, the Swedish Gripen, started on 28 July and included about 30 flights. The around 35 hours flown were distributed between pilots from armasuisse and the air force
Instead you went on the offensive to stir up **** and hurt the thread. You might find that enjoyable, I otoh find it unnecessary and childish just as unnecessary as it was for some to attack the Typhoon over a bad day.
The engine is different, the avionics are different and the airframe is modified.
You’re talking about the F-35A versus the X-35 now right ?
Oh not as such? Funny that.
And the “Gripen NG” is being flight tested on several test aircraft, Gripen Demo (39-7) being one of them. 39-6 do avionics tests… Other jets do other pieces… Kind of like how the JSF test fleet one day will do different stuff…
Does anyone know how the A2A evaluation will be conducted? Will it involve DACT against a standard aggressor aircraft? Will there be ‘fly offs’ between the competeting jets?
The competing jets is not there at the same time so no. But they do some kind of tests with the F-18s and F-5s. F-18 acts as intruder AFAIK in some tests and you got to deal with that problem.
Jane’s – Norway like a banana republic
– Fighter acquisition will Norway to the memory bit of a banana republic, “said Robert Hewson, editor of the military magazine Jane’s.
By popular demand, a summary of the only (?) official data on range that is available.
Gripen to NL (2008) , page 6.
Gripen to Brazil (2003), page 8.
SwAF Air Tactical Command (1999) , page 39, Addendum B1.
Range from above pdfs:
JAS 39C
Combat radius: 800 km internal fuel
Combat radius: 1,550 Km with external fuel
Ferry range: 3,200 Km
Gripen NG
Combat radius: 1,300 Km + 30 minutes on station with A2A weapons.
Ferry range: 4,075 Km with external fuel
Range: 2,500 Km on internal fuel
——–
On another note but related, the Swedish designation system goes after a priority list, for example the JA 37 Viggen was priority J=Fighter and secondary A=Attack while the sister aircraft AJ 37 Viggen had Attack as priority.
JAS 39 in role priority is thus Fighter-Attack-Recon. And that’s something you can see on design and requirements, it’s all pretty straight forward… It’s not going to pretend to be a long range attack aircraft because attack is second priority. The issues with range comes when you want to add heavy weapons instead of drop tanks.
But in A2A and recon not so much an issue, in the Swiss trials the Gripen sometimes flew with as much as 3 droptanks and 4 missiles + recon pod in a air defence combat air patrol loadout.
If I follow your advise, I guess I should praise the great t-w-ratio of the typhoon and it’s comparably huge order backlog.
But this wouldn’t reflect my perception of the situation. It is Saab’s competition to loose, but Dassault presented a very convincing package.
“Lose” I suppose. Where do you get this idea? It’s rather Rafale’s to lose. The Swiss has never flown Swedish jets, there’s Eurofighters all around them including German industry contacts, there’s various forms of attempts to rebate Eurofighters to make room for T3 deliveries, the requested fleet is not big enough to make a large impact on life cycle costs, France is next door quite eager for a sale to get that important first customer. They have flown French jets before and could get more training space over the border.
You’re right to talk about a package because that’s what decides things like this not individual good results in specific tests, because all jets will be better at something compared to the other ones (shocking piece of news there).
In the end there’s 3 strong contenders and one major enemy, namely Swiss politics.
I guess it boils down to Armasuisses’ perception of Gripens future. Sweden just reduced it’s airforce considerably, and the rest of the userbase aren’t exactly economic powerhouses.
On current firm contracts, well before the Swiss plan to induct the new jets, there’s 5 nations flying 160+ jets of the JAS 39C/D which is the product on offer. Sweden is not reducing its C/D in fact the C/D fleet is being expanded.
5 nations with plans to fly the type another 30+ years. Future R&D is already funded. So I don’t think the worries you talk about is on the Saab side.
I would argue for the good points of your favourite aircraft rather than talk negative about other jets, in part because only the Armasuisse know the results of tests and how they match the Swiss requirements.
Technically its not an insurmountable problem but it would be costly and time consuming. The Swiss would have to pay for the integration process or accept MICA into the inventory.
Yes, the French could absorb the integration cost in an offer if they so choose but the problem is later and continuos, who will integrate and test new versions etc.
I think EF has a good chance but not because some neighbours fly the machine but mainly on technical and industrial reasons, plus there’s 3 Gripen users not that far away and the French on the other side….
Top right on page 2 of the Rafale PR brochure arthuro dug up:
Just Perfect ! Thanks. Yeap, tough competition..