SabreAceOh great! Why did you have to ask? Was’nt the answer obvious enough?
I wonder what logic defying garbage, mr.scrotum is going to spew now? 😡
SabreAceSo Karna, is that the stuff people talk in your country? Sounds like a bunch of dumbass losers.
North?South?Bengal?Punjab? You all look the same to me! 😀
SabreAceHow many other airforces are getting trained in Indian institutions like TACDE etc? I can’t recall any so why should the USAF have anything to worry about unless they see india as a potential enemy?
SabreAceVery simply, the USAF can fight…dirtier…than anyone else. That’s how you win and they will win. IAF may have the aircraft, some technology and the training required for world beating but they don’t have the intelligence assets, the compromised technology, the infrastructure, the force multipliers, the numbers, the funds and alliances required to carry out operations on a similar scale against a modern airforce (I’m not talking the likes of the PAF here) as the USAF and hence acheive similar results.
SabreAceVery very very very simple question that I asked earlier. Why is it always the USAF’s mistakes/weaknesses/blunders/fault and not the brilliance of the opponents instead? Reminds me of the Vietnam air war. Was a single NVAF pilot given proper credit for anything?
When you have F-16s and F-15s with undefeated records in literally hundreds of engagements along with the fact that nearly all verified BVR kills in history are recorded by the US alone, then it is possible to debate anything against the USAF/USN.
And you call others dumb. You’re also obviously totally ignorant of the Aegean incidents. Must really tick off people like Icarus who go through trouble to get us gun camera pics and so on. One F-16 is a confirmed loss to a Mirage-2000.
SabreAceYou forgot two things – one is the evil laugh and secondly a line stating “This proves that we will get the Gripen or F-22”
SabreAceAnother highly reliable proof that PAF will gripen, (Found this link at BR forum)
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_001606.shtml
PAF selected (Jakt Attack Spanning)-39 “Gripen”
By PNS
Jun 16, 2004, 08:59
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ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is acquiring state of art high-tech front role most sophisticated JAS-Gripen plans for Pakistan Air Force (PAF) from Sweden.
These plans on their induction in the PAF would help in restoring balance in air defence of South Asian skies especially between Pakistan and India. The Gripens are far superior then Mig-27, Mig-29, Mig-31 and Mairage-2000, the front role Indian fighter plans. Well placed defence sources told The News here on Monday that President General Pervez Musharraf is visiting three important Scandinavian countries next month including Sweden and it is expected that the deal for purchase of the Gripen would also come up for discussion.
The President will visit to Denmark and Norway in the same trip. The sources said that Pakistan is going for JAS-39 version of Gripen plans, considered to be far more effective than US made F-16, the only front role state of art plans the PAF is relying and the mainstay of the Pakistan Air Force for any eventuality. The overhauling and maintenance technology will also be transferred to Pakistan of Gripens by Sweden once the deal is struck, the sources said.
The sources said that South Africa is the first country that acquired Gripens after the Swedish Air Force. South Africa was provided the first batch of the plans in 2000 and since then the plans are demonstrating remarkable performance.
Hungry and Check Republic have also purchased the JAS Gripen, the sources said. Pakistan has planned to buy 40 JAS-39 Gripens with most modern radars would be fitted in them. These plans will be capable to strike deep into the enemy’s territory as these plans could be refueled in the air.
They will be equipped with jamming transmitters and capable of carrying any type of warhead to a distance of more than three thousand kilometre, the sources added. The sources said that Pakistan has decided to acquire the Gripens after finding difficulties in getting US made F-16s while Pakistan has also studied French made Rafael and upcoming European plan Euro fighters.
In the end it has been decided to go into a deal for the Gripens. Pakistan is expecting to induct JF-17 Thunder in the PAF in early 2007 but the Gripens would be available much before that, the sources said. The PAF is in dire need of high-tech plan.
The Gripens will adequately fulfil the need, the sources said. Pakistan could not have any high-tech plan after acquiring F-16 some twenty years ago. The JF- 17 Thunder is being manufactured with collaborations of Chinese technology and again it would be slightly advanced to the mid-tech plans.
The JF 17 Thunder will be framed close to the F-16 while the Gripens will be Delta wing plan resembling with French made Mairage-2000 and it will be all weather capability plan with multi role of fighting, bombing and role of reconnaissance.
The super sonic Gripens will be flying with mach-2plus speed, beating in speed all its contemporaries, the sources said. The single seat fighter-attacker-reconnaissance Gripen is heads up and down display that replaces normal flight instruments. Its excellence has already proven and with ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) and navigation system, the Gripen is considered to be the current century’s plan in true sense, the sources added.
The sources said that Sweden is prepared to supply the plans according to the requirement of Pakistan. Foreign Secretary Riaz Kkhokhar visited Sweden last month and discussed with the authorities in Stockholm schedule of the visit of the President of Pakistan. Both the capitals are engaged in finalising the dates for the visit.
It is expected that Lt. General (Retired) Hamid Nawaz, Secretary defence would also be part of entourage of the President when he will be embarking upon the trip to the three countries. General Hamid Nawaz was instrumental when Pakistan acquired weapons from the United States last year and he succeeded in striking deal for the weapons, which were previously denied by the United States, the sources added.
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What would we do without these dumbasses? 😀 😀 😀
SabreAceThe RMAF deal is nothing close to cheap and neither are China’s new Su-30MKKs. These cheap figures can be misleading, are probably for an upgraded Su-30MK, without mention of all the bells n whistles.
SabreAceThe quote of the day. LOL
What’s so damn funny?
The PAF acquired expensive Mirage-IIIPs with Cyrano-2bis, armed with R-530 and AIM-9 when all the IAF had were MiG-21PFs and FLs, equipped with crappy R-2s and trashy K-13s. Even though the IAF won, they were technologically inferior when they went to war. Hey, all their aircraft were missile armed when only your MiGs, a fraction of your airforce, were! 😀
What about the F-104s, EB-57s, RB-57Fs which they operated?
SabreAceYou forgot the F-22. Were you in the forum, during this…
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4847&page=2&pp=30&highlight=Pakistan+F-22
Ok, I may be a scumbag for that link, but still need a laugh once in a while! 😀
SabreAceOh Silly me! I forgot that aircraft, technology, manpower, training, experience, funds etc etc and all such rubbish, don’t count for you, as long as you can compensate with dreams. 😀
Hey, but you don’t talk about crashes! 😀
The world is full of ironies is’nt it? The PAF’s only claim to fame is that it is the adversary of a giant airforce. You actually try to derive credit from direct comparison.
PS When are you going to get the Sopwith Camel and end your adversary’s air dominance?
SabreAceThere is little doubt that the PAF is one of the better air forces in the world outside of the US and Europe if you considered its record. It is certainly one of the best small air forces. In fact, among third world nations, only the Vietnamese air force is better recordwise.
He did say that the PAF’s equipment has lagged behind in recent years because of lack of access to western a/c. But that doesn’t change the fact that the PAF has been traditionally a very good air force.
It’s about time you joined the BS match too to support your slaves, GD. 😀
PAF is well trained with what they have. Despite low flying hrs, high attrition with newer aircraft, no modern aircraft, no modern sensors, no modern weaponary, no networking, no funds, no spares, no modern DACT experience, no technological advances, no nothing…you can still say this, because of tradition. 😀
Even Iraq is or was well trained. Most airforces are well trained. There are only a few that are too crap to do their own training (eg Gulf) and rely on external human resources. Those are the airforces who don’t even deserve to fly. Others have some flaws like the Soviet system – too much theory, too little flying. So just because one airforce is well trained does’nt mean the rest suck.
The USAF, IDF/AF, IAF, FAF, RAF etc are the few who really stand out. PAF in relative terms, will not last hours against an opponent who is classes apart. 😀
The Chinese FC-1 test pilot (in a news story posted in the old FC-1 thread) said that while the best air forces in the world are obviously Israel’s and the US’s, Pakistan is surprisingly potent because of its western orientation and training and he called it the “big brother” of all air arms in muslim countries.
Well, what do you expect him to say, genius? “We’re small and modest!” 😀 😀
PS Sameer, the next time you say “We will have 200 of this and 300 of that”, prepare for a kicking. 😡
Numbers are for kids. Either way, you know that the PAF does’nt compare but bring it up anyway, just to start a flame war.
SabreAceWhat the hell is America thinking if they consider spares to be a big deal and a gift? Spares should be standard. Why the American obessesion?
Looking at brochures, it looks as if China can supply Pakistan with everything it needs. Either that or Pakistan does’nt think highly of Chinese tech at all even though some guys claim that they’ve acheive western standards.
SabreAceAs Sameer said there is a reason the PAF is buying rusted,outdated equipment which is not difficult to figure out.
And you should stop making fun of them. Just because you two are traditional rivals does’nt mean that you can keep comparing militaries on a similar basis. Each country has it’s own requirements carefully charted out from it’s own experience and financial situation. I suppose you expect them to buy Su-30MKIs? Even if they could, the changes and improvements needed overall, is not feasible. They have to keep their ops small scale. Perhaps if they had Bangladesh as a part of them, they could afford to add state of the art equipment too, as they did in the 60s.
SabreAcePAF Fan
Excuse me, I meant pilots, on a one on one basis and in similar aircraft PAF pilots shot down 3-4 IDF aircraft with no losses to their own, PAF pilots flew with Jordan, Iraqi and Syrian AF, there was only a handful of them….
Don’t spout that BS here. Arab pilots have scores of IDF/AF kills to their name and that does’nt mean that they get 10 times the brownie points, you hope for.
Yeah, a glorified protection force that has shot down more enemy aircraft then it has lost, defeating Indian, Israeli and Soviet air forces in air to air combat.
I don’t know how you get yourself to believe such trash. Does your country honestly feed you that garbage in school? The PAF, on the contrary, has lost every war it has fought and is nowhere near 1/10th of the quality of it’s main adversary today. This is seriously treading the lines of talibanist propoganda.
Both of you should get over your rivalries. There’s no comparing a Beetle to a Monster truck.
Pakistan Army SAMs destroyed 3 IAF aircraft in 1999, so maybe SAMs are not so bad after all….
Who said that SAMs were bad? Being slaved to large ground based radars, they are probably more reliable than AAMs. Pakistan MANPADS shot down 2 and not 3 aircraft, one of them requiring 8 stingers to bring down but probably launched 100s more.
I think the above news will mean the US may give a green light for a PAF Gripen/Erieye purchase…..
Why not? Afterall, you are blasting your own people at Waziristan, and rather proudly boasting about it on the forum, at the command of the Americans. Only thing is that there has been so far, no official objection or even relation to the US, as far as the gripen or erieye is concerned and that itself is unsubstantiated news that has gotten you dreaming beyond control. I’d hate to see what happens if PAF starts eyeing the F-22?
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