Another big proof of my recent pessimism!
MOSCOW, April 11 (RIA Novosti) – Russia needs to produce up to 30 intercontinental ballistic missiles a year to maintain a strategic nuclear balance with the United States, a senior security expert said Tuesday.
Alexei Arbatov, head of the international security center at the Russian Academy of Sciences, told RIA Novosti that if Russia continued to produce only 6-8 Topol-M missiles a year it would have only 150 such missiles and three nuclear submarines in 10-15 years.
No country currently has missiles like the Topol-M, which is capable of penetrating anti-missile defense systems, he said, “and is unlikely to possess them in the next 20 years.”
Arbatov also said Russia and the U.S. should boost strategic stability talks.
“We need a more radical treaty on strategic offensive reductions with a reliable control mechanism,” he said. “Such a treaty should fix a limit of 1,000 warheads for the two countries.”
Under the current agreement, Russia and the U.S. are to reduce their total number of warheads to 1,700-2,200 by December 31, 2012.
“By that time, Russia will have no more than 1,000 warheads anyway, but this gap [1,700-2,200] allows the U.S. to maintain nuclear dominance”, Arbatov said.
As I see some Russian experts also think that era of US nuclear dominance is approaching very fast if Putin and his clique don’t bring themselves to reason faster!
No. There’s enough Nukes in 10% of 30,000+ to wipe out the USA 5 times over.
Don’t show us your ignorance. USSR has never had 30000 warheads aimed at US but 10000 ones! So, 10% of them is 1000 or even less. Unfortunately this 1000 strategic warheads Russia has only up to US first strike. 🙂
You were there to see their readiness right? Or did that author visit that site firsthand and take photos of the sites with his handy Sony Digicam?
Are you serious??? Thus Russia simply hasn’t OTH nad LPAR radars directed at some azimuths because of USSR’s downfall or radars’ withdrawal from service due to its age! Do you really think that everybody needs some top secret data to discover this???
Can’t be hidden rearming if we know about it on this forum already, right? And what’s to say the Topol-Ms are all single warhead?
Hidden means not based on increasing amount of warheads or delivery vehicles but on improving lethality of existing systems. First method isn’t necessary because stupid Putin sharply reduces Russian nuclear forces or in other words number of potential US targets. Of course W-78 improving isn’t a secret but Russia can’t MIRV-ing SS-27s because of still existent START I treaty! I see you don’t know much about this subject area.
Yeah it’s against Russia. I pity them if they even think of using it, even while being **** drunk at a White House party.
Really? Wait several years more of this stupid Putin’s policy and you can be very disagreeably surprised!
They were there first hand to find all ICBMs and SLBMs right? And THEN plan this “very accurate” simulation… ?
Do you suggest me Russia possesses some hidden extra ICBMs and SLBMs about which entire world knows nothing??? You are simply wrong. As for state of readiness of actually deployed nuclear systems there are a lot of public evidences this state is comically low. Get to know them!
Early warning radars exist in the USSR/Russia like no other. There’s also spy satellites. The Russians aren’t morons, they will see it coming, why not? One way or another, and there’s more Strategic weapons in Russia now than you can imagine. Do you know how deep those SS-18s are kept? Or wait, will you tell me .. what they told you?
Unfortunately present Russia isn’t USSR buddy, however I am sure many Russians still wrongly think so! Your early warning satellites can only detect US ICBMs launched from CONUS but it is impossible for them to detect US SSBNs launching its missiles from open waters near Russia.
“How deep are those SS-18s kept???” – What a unreasonable twaddling is it???
Nah that’s total crap. Eventually the much loved Soviet weapons will find themselves in a museum.. but the Russians will by then operate a very highly modernized force of SS-27s, Bulavas, and whatever next missile they may want. Check out the economic reports.. GDP rise.. and what not.. It’s all good and getting better.
Oh, yes? That is true all post-soviet systems will disappear soon but if you think they will be replaced by enough number of SS-27s and SS-N-30s you are probably some madman! The inevitable reality is that when post-soviet missiles withdrawing process is fully completed Russia will really fall in a foul crap as never before! Yes, economic ratings still rise but only in “Krasnaya Zvezda” and similiar propaganda rags! On the other hand money for defence still lacks.
What? NATO didnt use nukes, right.. like Russia would to do what? Attack? Attack who? The Russians since Soviet times, like Brezhnev and even Krushchev said, the Soviets will never fire first. Same with Russia. US attacks Russia.. goodbye planet.
No, you didn’t understand me. All simulations in this article were made under assumption that US first strike would be nuclear not conventional. Nevertheless as I pointed out earlier US could potentially destroy entire Russian strategic nukes only by conventional means! That alone shows perfectly how deep is breakdown of Russian military might.
Your witty remarks make you look like a fool. Please refer from doing it.
As I clearly proved above your military knowledge is so plaintively tomfool you should start dabbling in some sand-pit, duckie! 😀
To dionis:
Did you really read this article, buddy??? I think you didn’t, because you answered me only with bull****s! You have a plenty of evidences there that Russian deterrence under Putin falls far behind any level of rationality and moreover its future is even more dark. You stated there aren’t any facts in this article. Well, look at them and answer following questions:
1. Russia still reduces its nuclear arsenal up to about 10% level of its 1990’s strength. This stupid activity only makes easy success of US first strike. Yes or no???
2. Russian early warning system is in shambles today and thus Russia is practically blind in the event of unexpected US attack. Yes or no???
3. The readiness level and training of Russian nuclear systems is inadequate and thus negligible. It makes Russian retaliation capability far more insecure. Yes or no???
4. US nuclear forces are now in process of hidden rearming. The best example is adaptation of ALL US SLBM warheads into hard target kill capability! Yes or no???
5. This US nuclear buildup is aimed primarly against Russia and China but not against terrorists or rouge states because of its great scope. Yes or no???
6. US first strike could supress all Russian nuclear forces and C3I systems. Precise proofs backed by simulations you should find at Intenational Security Website soon. Yes or no???
7. US NMD system is viewed as a hedge against a few Russian warheads remaining after US strike. All US propaganda about rouge states missiles threaten America is only an excuse to cheat various suckers. Yes or no???
8. Quote: “And unless they reverse course rapidly, Russia’s vulnerability will only increase over time.” That is exactly also my point of view and as we can see I am not alone in it, as you still suspect! Yes or no???
9. Serbia could withstand a long time NATO’s bombing campaign only because NATO didn’t attack with nuclear weapons, like Russia would! Yes or no???
Well, you should get sober and look seriously at this sad, incurious and precarious Russian reality!
To dionis and other unwise guys who think I am some paranoiac and Russia is safe forever! Read guys this article from Foreign Affairs – March/April 2006 very carefully especially in the context of presented above by dionis some “mythological indestructibility” of Russian nuclear arsenal. After this lecture you should finally stop to tell me all your bull$hits! OK?
The Rise of U.S. Nuclear Primacy
PS. I have THREE explanations:
1. I am NOT an author of this article! 😀
2. I have found it just now!
3. For more facts and informations you can also read this article: “The End of MAD? The Nuclear Dimension of U.S. Primacy,” International Security 30, no. 4 (Spring 2006), which isn’t avaliable yet but it should be avaliable soon here: Intenational Security Website.
@sferrin: Unmasked “adviser” has nothing interested to tell us, so he must clowning. 😀 😀 😀
@Austin: Yes, you are right! Descending with amount of warheads in US/Russia and its increasing number in India/Pakistan/China arsenals is potentially a big threat to Russia. US could rely more on its huge advantage in conventianal weapons over rest of the World but Russia won’t have enough money in foreseeable future to rebuild its convetional might up to Soviet levels. Thus nuclear weapon is essential for Russian security for a long time period because nuclear parity with PRC/Pakistan/India and contemporary their conventional advantage over Russian Army is a tragedy for Russia in the event of regional war with any of them! Therefore, as you wrote above, Russia must return to 6000 strategic warheads level as it was signed in START I treaty. Additionally Russian Army should possess a few thousands of offensive/defensive tactical and intermediate range nukes associated mainly with dual-use delivery vehicles such as tactical aircrafts, ships, submarines, balistic missiles, cruise missiles, ASMs, bombs and SAMs. In that situation Russia could maintain even small professional, conventional army as a rapid deployment forces with a huge mobility and C3I/PGM capabilities relied on nuclear delivery systems and infrastructure!
Unfortunately Austin, I think US are rather interested in dropping Russia into nuclear “second league” together with China/Pakistan/India! Later US could blackmail Russia as follows: “Well, Russia! Now you are comparable power with all those nuclear dwarfs but worse is that it seems any of them doesn’t like Russia much. So, only US/NATO can defend Russia against them but not gratis, of course! Thus you must carefully listen and do exactly what Uncle Sam tells you!” That is why Russia should rebuild its nuclear power unilaterally without US concord, aid or any new stupid treaty!
O, yes! If Russia really obey such an adivsers like sferrin, there will be the end of Russia! All these guys have one hint for Russia: “Every military procurement is simply a wasting of money! Even existence of Russian Army is completely unfounded and uneconomical. How much money could Russia save, if Russian Army is liquidated! So, you had better demobilize all your armed forces and immediately join NATO! US is the only state which can assure your securty forever!” 😀 😀 😀
Look closely at his counsel: US transferred four Ohio subs from nuclear SSBN to conventional SSGN role – what a brilliant move! But don’t dare to build any new IRBM, because this is useless weapon now! Unfortunately our beloved adviser has forgotten to add that new Russian IRBMs could be equipped with pinpoint accuracy CONVENTIONAL warheads, too! Then these new IRBMs would become more lethal weapon than Ohio SSGNs but that observation isn’t noteworthy for our dear western assistant for obvious reasons…
Of course, a relatively small number of intercontinental missiles in Russian arsenal must be aimed primarly at targets in CONUS! Remaining targets in Euroasia should be assigned to SRBMS, LR-INFs and tactical ALCMs/SLCMs. As I know SS-26 SRBM is in two versions: for Russian Army with a 400 km range and intended for export with range up to 280 km due to 300 km MCTR’s restriction. But even upgraded 500 km Tender isn’t a good choice as a sole INF system because of its still small range. Thus only real solution of this problem is to restore SS-20 missiles or its follow-on called SS-X-28. The SS-X-28 would have begun replacing SS-20 since 1988 but well known Gorbi’s stupidity prevented this. So, now its is time to resume its produciton. I also read somewhere there was some MITT’s project of Soviet Pershing II counterpart. I don’t rememeber its designation but it was missile with about 2000 km range, full mobile, very compact, made mainly with composite materials and with single terminal homing nuclear/neutron/EMP warhead. Maybe now it would be a better way than reviving SS-20 project? Russia should deal not only with second rank nuclear powers but also Russia should have an wide range of options for retaining “escalation dominance and thus de-escalation’s constraint” on conventional-tactical-INF-intercontinetal level in any future conflict with US/NATO/China on its periphery.
Oh, yes! That is a great news, Austin! Maybe some patriotic Russian generals understood that now Russia is at brink of breakdown and they will try to kick out these two mutenesses: Putin and Ivanov, as soon as possible!
As for INF missiles I was right! There are still in Russia solid and clever military who knows very well, INF forces are the best choice for Russia to counter NATO enlargement, NMD launchers in Eastern Europe or US military bases on Caucasus and in Central Asia! Nowadays there is the last chance Russia can avert Western expansion! Everything you should to do is to “make missiles like sausages” as Khrushchev told very wisely a long time ago! There is no better solution! You could begin some public money gathering in Russia for resuming SS-20 production!!!
@Trident: As fas as I know all recent sources claim that Borey will carry only twelve SLBMs. There were some rumors about 20 missiles but it was rather long time ago. I think Borey was originally designed as 20 Barks carrier! Unfortunately some machinations made by MITT’s lobby against Makeyev Design Bureau during 1997-1998 period caused cancellation of entire Bark project. I suppose it was a big mistake because Bark was up to 75% ready and liquidation of this project caused long prolongation in Borey’s production. Moreover Russian SSBN patrols dropped from A HUNDRED in 1984 to THREE in 2005 but US patrols still remains at Cold War’s levels! Besides there was another and a quite good way: both Delta-IVs and Boreys should be equipped with Sineva (modernized SS-N-23 with some Bark’s innovations) missiles armed with ten 100 kT MIRV’s as a pure “city killers”. Such a simple move means 1320 warheads on nine Russian boomers in 2015 (three “hopefully” finished Boreys six overhauled Delta-IVs) but Russian rulers aren’t so clever to observe this possibility…Well, taken additionally into account also MIRV-ed land and air legs of its nuclear triad Russia could easily keep parity with US at 2200 warheads level under SORT treaty and it could be possible to expand this arsenal if Russian-Western relations deteriorate in the future!
@Vympel: We shall see about Tu-95Ms but I am quite sceptical whether there will be any of them in service for ten years. Maybe a few platforms will, but as I see in Tu-160’s aquisitions I am depressing: This droll Ivanov simply “buys” one old Tu-160 annually which rusted for ten years in the Zhukovsky plant as a “new and modern” superbomber!
As for H-101: if H-555 has a priority now I really doubt in present financial conditions Russia could buy another and much more expensive ALCM! That is why H-101/102 project was suspended indefinetly…
@Kojedub: I also have a good RIA Novosti article for you: Cold War an offspring of “hot war”
Read this carefully! It is about real Western altitude toward USSR/Russia from the past to present. Well, you will probably understand why Russia should begin production of 60 SLBMs a year like in Soviet times…In celebration of the 70th anniverary of the CC CPSU resolution about Stahanovism you could mount again at least one year long Stahanov movement to build 60 SLBMs! Later you will have a rest for a few years. 🙂
Well, soyuz1917! Maybe you needn’t go to the neurologist but try to induce Putin to visit mad-doctor! 😀
Besides as I see, my posts changed a little your point of view referring to post-Soviet strategic weapons. It is true all of them are heaps of junk now and in ten years perspective Russia will have to scrap them all. Unfortunately, your next prediction about new Russian strategic systems is false. I am afraid it is impossible to mount more than one warhead on actually deployed SS-27s because they need redesign before that. So, you will possess about 100 ICBMs with 100 warheads! I am also very interesed how Putin wants to buy six mobile SS-27s annually? In my opinion this task exceeds his wallet affluence thus Russia will be able to deploy no more than two to three mobile SS-27s yearly! As for Bulava procurement, you suggest this SLBM will be bought in quantity of 1-2 missiles a year??? Thus one Borey is to be equipped with Bulavas for another six to twelve years??? Really, mad-doctors could gain a big fortune now in Russia! And last thing is question about new ALCMs for Blackjacks. Take into account that in ten years Russia will have ONLY TWENTY T-160s strategic bombers because all T-95MS will be gradually withdrawn from service. So, about 240 new ALCMs isn’t a big achievement, especially if we point out “NEW” ALCMs! Consider that essentially NEW Russian ALCM was a H-101/102 project. But nowadays this project was suspended because of lack of money. In substitution Russian Air Force chose a H-555 cruise missile’s project which is simply a modernization of 20 years old H-55 Soviet ALCM with conventional warhead and better accuracy! But neither this missile nor Tu-160 aren’t a stealth technology systems! Note that US had such a systems like B-2 and AGM-129A for twenty years in its inventory! Therefore Russian strategic aviation with 20 bombers and about 200 “old-new” ALCMs will be only a laughing stock for ten years. Taking it all together Russia isn’t in position to watch happily with hope in the future. 🙁
@Trident: I know US SLBMs weren’t deployed with its maximum payload due to overestimated Moscov ABM system and its powerful W-88 warheads but in present Russian situation decoys or accurate warheads aren’t needed. Note Borey can carry ONLY twelve Bulavas, a very limited number as for SSBN! So, Bulava must be equipped with as many warheads as possible but its CEP can be even 500 meters. Bulava with FOUR MIRV’s gives us 48 warheads on a single SSBN – less than on any other boomer with MIRVed SLBMs! But Bulava with ten to fourteen even relatively small MIRVs change this sad situation drastically into 120-168 warheads armed Borey, a very huge difference! You can count youself how many cities can crush one Borey with both loadings.
@Maxpain: You forgot about one essential fact: present Russia isn’t a parlametary democracy but an authoritarian regime headed by President of Russia = PUTIN. Because Putin rules for SEVEN years he had enough time to replace old Yeltsin’s clique with his own reliable group and he really did it! Unfortunately you are right: almost all Putin’s proteges are idiots but you don’t admit that Putin is mainly responsible for promoting this rabble and thus he is answerable for all their chuckle-headed activity, too! Besides it is nothing surprising because who are memebers of Putin’s clique? They are mainly narrow-minded sleuths from former KGB, as Putin.
@Trident: Bulava needn’t be a very accurate missile in my proposition because hitting a city isn’t a complicated task. The Poseidon SLBM had 500 meters CEP and it was enough for obliterating lagre urban areas with a lot of its small size multiple warheads. Moreover Poseidon could carry up to FOURTEEN MIRVs! So, why Bulava couldn’t deliver the same amount of warheads? Such a multiple strike even with one missile armed with 14 MIRVs against a huge city should burn it into ashes if Dr Postol’s “firestorm” model is correct. In present situation bankrupt Putin’s Russia must forget about nuclear parity with US and therefore Russia has to accept Chinese model of deterrence: targeting only a limited number of major US cities because it lacks thousands of accurate warheads needed for striking missile silos, command centers, lidership facilities, military and industrial infrastructure etc. I know it is a very risky strategy due to ridiculous number of delivery vehicles and a big US nuclear and conventional superiority but without major shift in present Russian posture (possible regime change and reviving Soviet military buildup, even on a relatively modest scale) nothing more can be done. Sad but true…
Maybe Bulava designation isn’t right (besides what a difference it is???) but my opinion about three to four MIRVs on a top of Bulava is confirmed there! 😀
Of course Bulava CAN carry ten warheads with about 50 kT yield at a distance of 8000 km. Well, at least Russia should repeat US Poseideon SLBM concept with a three “Boreys” fleet as a “city killers” if Putin really is a bankrupt. It would be a cold war’s UK strategy and thus evident proof of Russia’s ruination but what else this Kremlin’s pauper could do??? 🙁
Poor Austin…can’t you understand one simple fact? All this twaddling about “hypersonic warheads” and “advanced decoys” is only a Putin’s swindle created due to one reason: to decrease amount of Russian strategic warheads as much as possible and thus keep secret from Russian public opinion all tragic financial situation of Russian Army! Maybe secondary goal is to fulfil some secret US demands relating to maximum reduction of Russian nukes in order to prevent its proliferation to the rouge states.
Though everyone knows the best way to avoid any ABM system is saturating it with huge number of warheads! Thus Russia should simply deploy as many ordinary nuclear warheads as possible on its delivery vehicles. I am sure this is the cheapest and most effective solution for Russia but nothing simliar happened so far. Do you know why? But more interesting question is: What would happen if Russia really began to do this???
All you are funny optimists, guys, and I marvel your good mood! Unfortunately you don’t understand what really DETERRENCE means! It doesn’t matter how many warheads country possesses in its arsenal when the war begins! You are constantly writing here Russia will have 1500-2000 strategic nukes in its arsenal after 2015. I am sure you are completely wrong but I don’t want to persuade you indefinitely that about 500 nukes is everything what Russia will be able to deploy. So, I stay with my opinion and for ten years we can verify who was right! 🙂
So, if Russia has 500 strategic warheads on less than 200 delivery vehicles after 2015, how many of them will survive after absorbing US fist strike??? Maybe ten or twenty and that is all! As I pointed out above such a strike could be mounted by several B-2s armed with CONVENTIONAL PGMs! Well, it is easy to imagine some fictional scenario: after unexpected US attack Putin will rest with only 20 nukes. The US President will call to Kremlin and tell Putin: “Well baby – game is over! I have already wiped out your nuclear arsenal almost entirely and thus now I have ONE HUNDERD TIMES more nukes than you and NMD system in reserve, of course. Don’t dare to cross nuclear threshold because you know very well who is now “DUKE of NUKE”! So, you have to allow US Army to deploy occupation garrisions at all your oilfields or I will obliterate entire your country into stone age, buddy!”. I am sure PRC President will call to Putin also with similiar demands! And what Putin could do in this situation? I think he could only hoist white flag! 🙁
PS. Be sure, Austin – SS-N-30 will be equipped with maximum FOUR warheads, exactly like SS-N-23! Of course, it CAN carry up to ten MIRVs but SS-27 CAN also deliver SIX warheads! Unfortunately all deployed SS-27s are single warhead missiles – a very strange situation…Well, it only proves that composition of future Russian nuclear arsenal must be planned somewhere near Pentagon! :diablo:
My dear RPG-7V: I must tell that in fact you BELIVE in my “dark predictions” because you stated above that Russian nuclear power will fall somewhere between France and PRC deterrence! Isn’t a huge collaps for Russia to shrink its nuclear power from Soviet to French level??? I am sure it is an inexplicable catastrophe! 🙁
In my opinion after 2015 Russia will possess about 120 single warhead Topol-Ms, three Borey SSBNs armed with 36 Bulava missles (four MIRVs per missile) with 144 warheads and about 20 Tu-160s with associated 240 ALCMs. Taken together this gives us grand total of about 500 strategic nuclear warheads – thus well comparable with France and even UK deterrents but evidently smaller than expanded PRC arsenal not mention about FOUR TIMES bigger US arsenal! I am not a prophet of doom but I am rather a realist…