Critics: Time to bail on Navy JSF
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/03/navy_hornet_jsf_032110w/
π
Two nearly identical ship classes that use the same components/logistic supply train and only physically differ in that one has a well deck and the other doesn’t? I hope you were being sarcastic!
Hi Obi π
Sorry for my bad english :o;)
Do you think the U.S. Navy can afford to pay:
– 11 aircraft carrier (10/14 billion $ each)
– 9 / 10 type LHA-6 America (2-2,5 billion $ each, LHD HEAVY focused on aviation capabilities: 12/18 F-35, without well deck for landing craft…)
– 9 / 10 type LHD1/8 (1,8-2,5 billion $ each, focused on amphibious capabilities, with only a handfull of 6/8 F-35, with well deck, landing craft & more vehicles, troops)
– 9 / 10 LPD san antonio (1,5-2 billion $ each)
– 9 / 10 LSD (replaced around 2020 by the futur LSD(X))
You and I know that ….. …. no! :rolleyes:
and even 4/5 LHA-6 and 4/5 LHD-1/LHA-8 is a “heresy” …..
in fact, everything depends on the futur of the F-35 ….:D:D:D:rolleyes:
Personally, with an F-35 to $ 135 million:rolleyes:
if it is canceled:D (or with MUCH less planes ordered ;))
Personnnaly, I opt instead for:
– 8/9 CVN
– 8/9 LHD
– 9 LPD
– 9 LDS
Best regard π
The reason the Marines want more well decked LHAs rather than ‘LHA-6 type’ ships is the rapid speed with which the USN is decommissioning the Tarawa class LHAs, before their replacements can be built. Tarawa (LHA-1) herself has been retained in reserve rather than used for target practice to placate the Marines who are very concerned about overall numbers. In reality the USN and USM will need both LHA-6 types and LHA-8 types in the future, rather than an ‘either/or’ situation which appears likely. The ‘6s can accomodate the bulk of the CAS F-35Bs freeing up the decks of the ‘8s to concentrate on trrop carrying helos (the ‘6s can still provide additional troop carrying helos and troop accomodation, acting as force multipliers). Both types are needed.
Dramaticaly costly, expensive to maintain 2 ships class, nearly identical….
:rolleyes:
Turkey revives $3 billion Navy project
(6 futur AAW frigates)
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turkey-revives-3-billion-navy-project-2010-03-15
Even much more worse than a only voice π
Maybe a withdrawal from the Danish side…:D
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Penge/2010/03/15/112521.htm
What’s that cylindrical object protruding from the forward deck?
“Anechoic” device (for silencing improvement) ?
Apparently, there was a 2-year period when no work was done at all in order to do work on refitting the ballistic missile submarine HMS Victorious.*
Then there were some unexpected “issues”.
Among these was the need for new inspection equipment to be designed, manufactured and commissioned to carry out surveys on the reactor systems. This required close working between Babcock, the MoD design authority and Rolls Royce to minimize program impact. Additionally, repairs were successfully carried out by Babcock to both torpedo tube air ram cylinders which were far more extensive than anticipated before being surveyed at the start of the LOP(R). Further challenges included equipment obsolescence issues, often requiring fault diagnosis and resolution without original manufacturerβs drawings.
* A deliberate decision was made to only work on one sub at a time, so as to keep the workforce at a steady level, which also had the effect of prolonging the time that those workers were employed on the refit/modernization projects. The MOD was apparently fine with this, despite it delaying re-commissioning of HMS Triumph for 2 years.
Thanks for the more “ACCURATE” details than the official article
π
6 years of refit for a SSN (when the US refit for a CVN lasted usually 3-3,5 years)….:rolleyes:….But the best was for few russian warships, more than a decade in shipyard π
A $2.35-billion contract between Russia’s state-controlled arms exporter Rosoboronexport and the Indian Defense Ministry on refitting the INS Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov) and the $1.2-billion contract on delivery of MiG-29K/KUB carrier-based fighters will be signed during Putin’s visit to India on March 11-12.[/I]Full Story
π 2,35 + 1,2….
3,55 billion $ for the refit of a 1968-1971′ design era aircraft carrier + airwing
In the early 2000’s, the italian paid 1,8 billion β¬ (+/- 2,1 billion $) for the highly modern “conte di cavour” design π
:dev2:
Yes but what happens when your unarmed OPV runs up against something with a gun on it? It runs away if it can or gets sunk. The F125 kicks **** and needs a very high end warship to deal with it. The type of ship may countrys don’t own. Hmmmm should I have typed something in CAPITAL letters? Just jokin
Sorry for my bad english…
This OPV is not a unarmed opv !
The Knud Rasmussen opv class can carry :
– one 76mm oto melara gun
– 2/4 machines guns
– Possible Manpad for short range air defense
– 1 helico
– RHIB
– crew: only 18, accomodation for 45; (versus 169 for a absalon)
A cheap big OPV ! (maybe ? 80-120 million β¬ versus ? 500 for a absalon)
Really sufficient to face any “low threat” (smuggler, piracy, terrorists)
The Absalon were designed in the same “modular way”, but much more bigger, much more expensive ! (maybe 3-4 Knud Rasmussen for the price of a Absalon ?)
Tackling the low threats is to go in the Caribbean, Gulf of GuinnΓ©e, off the Somali, Red Sea, the Gulf, Asia….The number of ships is important.
1 absalon can not patrol all areas that 2/3 knud rasmussen
Not a cost-effective solution for the US navy to chase pirate (some guys armed with rpg-7 & ak-47 on skiff or zodiac) off the somali coast with a Arleigh burke destroyers (9000 tons ships armed with 127mm guns & cruise missiles with a cost per unit of about 1,5 billion $)…and the official “answer”…the LCS…cost 650 million $ apiece:D
Currently, +/- generaly there is a sad mentality
– Buy 2 high-tech vessels & 1 medium-tech vessel
It is better to buy 2 High-tech and 4 low-tech vessels
But this is only my opinion
Regard
Swerve thats the first time I have heard anyone but myself use that term but its exactly the sort of ship navys need to be building. Hve a core of hi end war fighting ships and then some colonial crusers to do any policing work required at much cheaper cost, the F125 being an good example
Any “colonial” term were now TOTALLY OBSOLETE
Colonial cruisers or “Gunboat policies” were well know in the 18-until mid 19 th century
I prefer the “Presence Ships” or “Projection ships” or “Avisos” (or eventually Littoral Combat Ships), terms more appropriate for a navy with use warships to presence or maintain sovereignity in OVERSEAS territory…
The problem with absalon is that they are intended to be flexible, modular Officially …. It must be able to do everything, but ultimately she can not do anything
– Not a good ASW platform
– Not a good AAW platform
– Not a good Amphibious platform
– Too big (6000 tons) and expensive (500 million β¬ ?) to be a cheap big OPV*
* Generally a big (1200/2500 tons) OPV cost around 100/180 million β¬
For the Danish Fleet, better to use a cheaper OPV
Look newer big danish OPV intended for use in artic water
Yes for High-end ships (AAW cruisers, AAW/ASW destroyers/frigates
Yes for Low-end ships (Avisos, Corvettes, Light armed light frigate, OPV (Offshore patrol vessesl), MPV (Medium shore patrol vessel), IPV (Inshore patrol vessel))
But I doubt for the “Mid”-end ships usefull
It must be able to do everything, but ultimately she can not do anything
π
This news for another thread, but I want to comment here. News about Royal Danish Navy warship HDMS Absalon (L 16) classify as destroyer when she is classify in Danish Navy as command and support ships?!
Absalon = a ******* concept warships !
Too bigger (5/6000 T) to be a frigate
Too lightly armed to be a effective destroyers (lack effective long range AAW radar & so)
Too armed to be a simply command & control ships
Too lightly suited for amphibious duty (lack deck landing dock, ect…..)
……
Not a surprise :rolleyes:
F-35 in serious disarray
Here’s a new set for y’all to play with.
The Fourth is a millenium turret, probably from a danish “absalon” ?
Some others are twin 40mm gun, probably south korean corvettes/frigates…
British & French Futur CV…



Lovely to see Rafale on deck of British carrier:D