MirageIII[QUOTE=tphuang]
China’ helicopter industry is not necessarily that far behind. It’s mainly that the production capacity is not the greatest and also there are not many helicopters in China. In fact, the recent EC-175 deal with Eurocopter should be a good indicator of how far China’s helicopter industry has advanced. If you add the recent Z-11 designs (which argentina is interested in), Z-9 designs (which has achieved quite a few exports) and Z-10 and CMH, you are potentially looking at quite a capable helicopter industry. Just that you know, the recent Z-8, Z-9 and Z-11 are all domestic designs, that’s why they are allowed to be exported.
For your info, the Z-8 is based on the Aerospatiale Super Frelon = not Chinese design
The Z-9 is based on the Aerosaptiale Dauphin= not a Chinese design
The Z-11 is based on the Aerospatiale Ecureuil= not a Chinese design
How many exports for the Z-9?? Mali bought 2 besides that any other countries??
As far as I know the Z-8 and Z-11 have not been exported. So I suggest before you make any assumptions about Chinese design products you check it. If I follow your thinking the future Airbus A-320 to be build in China will be of Chinese design as well as the Su-27 build in Shenyang and so on…
MirageIIIA Rafale in a jungle camo scheme would be nice.
If they go for the Rafale, Brazil will be on top of the “Food Chain” in South America, not many countries will be albe to follow with them
MirageIIITNI Hinds themselves are barely in service, they only have two.
Daniel
Are they in the same status as their SU-27, with no missiles and air to ground armements?? They do not seems to have the money to back up their wish lists
MirageIIIThe Mirage 2000 that Brazil will receive are not upgraded, they are standard 2000C configuration, with no Mica missiles capability. The F-5E are upgraded now with the help of Israel.
There is no threaths to Brazil at the moment, however things can change quickly in this volatile area, Venezuela is not so stable now with the Che Chavez in charge, Argentine is flexing its muscles down the Falklands, Bolivia got another Che or Fidel fan in charge.. The only country that seems quite stable now is Chile
MirageIIIDoes anybody has pictures of the Mirage Milan, the version designed for the Swiss Air Force in the 70’s
MirageIIIHi MirageIII
I have to disagree. While the Gripen would be an excellent choice for Switzerland I think that any replacement fighter competition would also coincide with an F18 replacement. I cannot see Switzerland going for two types. I think that they will standardise on a single type. Given the very restrictive national legislation regarding deployment the Rafale would be overkill for them. The Gripen would be in an exceptionally good postion in any future competition.
Dassault should cease all sales activities with regard to Rafale. I have been a forum member for the last six years and have always stated on this forum that the Rafale will not get a single order. I am confident that this will be the case. This is not a problem- the Rafale is the best fighter in Europe right now, bar none. They should concentrate on integrating the Rafale´s avionics into the Mirage 2000 and offer upgrade packages to all the exising operators.
It is going to be a tough choice. Since the 60’s Switzerland had always fighters from different countries, France, US, UK. At the moment it is only from Northrop and Boeing, still they might choose to get an EU jet.
The FA-18E/F Super Hornet seems to be a logical choice following the FA-18 alerady produced under license in Switzerland and performing well. The JAS-39 Gripen has the advantage of being designed as user “friendly” according to the Swedish military system, very similar to Switzerland can also take off from highways, fit into the mountains caverns.
The Rafale is the outsider, since few years there are closer ties between the French and the Swiss Air Force. Switzerland has the money to buy them and in terms of logistical support, it is just next door, training can be done accross the border and most important it will help to improve the ties with EU.
MirageIIIWithin few years Switzerland will have to replace its F-5E Tiger II, so far it looks like the JAS-39 Gripen is a favorite, however the Rafale is also a possilbe candidate, The Swiss Air Force has been very satisfied with its Mirage
MirageIIIDont worry, another gulf country with filthy wealth will save their a$$e$ buy ordering rafales for their super duper AF handled by expatriates :D.
That might be India as the “savior” with so much wealth and so many “toys” in its shopping list. By the way the “filthy wealth” from those Gulf countries comes from oil and it is needed to fill the tanks of all planes even the one flying with the Indian Air Force!!!!
MirageIIIAccording to a French pilot that I talked few years ago, they could have done without the F-1 providing that the Mirage III would be modernized.This would have left more money available for the M4000. One of the main reason of having the F-1 in French service was to have the caution of its country air force to sell it to others, however the F-1 was a decent jet, proving its worth where it was used in combat.
In France, the designer of Mirage, Marcel Dassault had a lot influence and could have its way when he wanted ie: FA-18 versus upgraded F-7 Crusader
MirageIIIThis is not to say that the Mirage III was in its prime from the 60’s to 2000. It became clear that towards the late 70’s it had to be either replaced by for example the FA-18 in Australia, then Spain and later on Switzerland, upgraded like in Switzerland in the 80’s, Pakistan or extensivley modified like the Kfir or the Cheetha to keep up with the F-16, Mirage F-1 and so on
From the account of those who flew it, the Mirage III was from a good plane, doing the job it was build for. It is still the most succesfull plane series in terms of plane manufactured sold by Dasssault and some are still flying today like in Pakistan and Egypt
MirageIII[QUOTE=Flogger]Fighters like the Mirage III were obsolete by 1968, the IAI Kfir upgraded the Mirage Family to higher levels, neverthelss the Mirage G4/8 and Mirage F2 were not deltas and none was purchased, the fighter that replaced the Mirage F1 was the Mirage 2000 another delta.
The Mirage 2000 relaxed stability was the main new advantage that gave to the Mirage 2000 delta layout a new opportunity to compete with the tailed Mirage F2 and VG wing Mirage G and Mirage G4/8 prototypes and fixed the Mirage III flaws in order to replace the Mirage F1
Ask the Egyptian Air Force, Syria and Jordan!! they might not share your opinion about being obsolete. At that time the Mirage III was still holding its own, do not forget that countries like South Africa, Australia, Switzerland and Spain were at that time taking delivery of the Mirage III. They are reputable Air Force and would not have taken in service an obsolete plane as their front line fighters.
The Kfir came later on in the 70’s, if you ask French fighter pilots in the late 60’s and early 70’s they were quite satisfied with their “obsolte” plane. The Mirage F-1 was not requested by the French Air Force, it was proposed by Dassault and it was taken in service. The Mirage IIIRS did won a Photo Recon competion in Belgium in 2004 against more modern planes!!!
MirageIIIThere are stories of French pilots flying in the Irak Air Force Mirage F-1 as well, at leasr at the begining of the war with Iran in the early 80’s since there was not enough qualified pilots to handle their new toys.
Irak build a very large industrial infrastructure in the 80’s to a one point become independant of outside assistance. However at the end of the war with Iran they were broke and then then First Gulf War started
MirageIIIOuf merci Mirage III!!! Je crois qu’il essaye de dire (je vais essaye de traduire ca a l’air repetitif…)
“qui a construit les SAM et les avions qu’utilisait le Vietnam du nord ?”
Combien d’avions et de SAM avait le vietnam dans les années 60 ? et l’URSS ? et le pacte de Varsovie ? (je résume c’est toujours la meme phrase avec des trucs rajoutés a chaque fois…)
The Mirage III was obsolete at the end of the 70’s. Upgrades are useful , but at a moment, you need a new aircraft (otherwise, you loose you share of the market…). The new aircraft was the Mirage 2000.
Je comprends tres bien l’Anglais, ce type est a cote du sujet, il nous fait un c..c nerveux a propos de Son avion chaque fois que quelqu’un ose le contredire. Je crois qu’il ferait mieux de jouer dans le bac a sable avec ses jouets. En plus il affirme des choses incroyables et sans fondement et si tu a le malheur de le contredire alors la il devient fou.
To go back to the subject, the Mirage III had several up-grade in the several Air Force it was used to. In the Swiss Air Force it was modernized in the 80s & 90s pending the arrival of the FA-18. The plane itself was an efficent design, very much in what was the different concepts in the 60’s such as MiG-21, J-35 Draken, Lightining as well as the F-104, Mach 2 capable, very high rate of climb and controlled by GCI especially the MiG-21
The Swiss Air Froce was very satisfied with its Mirage III, it was a good combination with the F-5E Tiger II, a sort of hi lo mix like the F-15 & F-16.
MirageIIIsome questions
Who built the SAMs and aircraft North Vietnam used?
How many aircraft and SAM types had Vietnam in the 1960s? how many aircraft and SAMs types had the USSR in the 1960s?
How many SAMs had the USSR and WARSAW PACT in the 1960s and How many had North Vietnam in the 1960s?
???? pardon je ne parle tres bien anglais
MirageIIIread first what i said i said the Mirage 2000 had relaxed stability that measn a different wing and certer of gravity relation but the Mirage III and Mirage 2000 are still the same design just modernized
This is another complete non-sense, they might look the same in certain aspects, still they very differents. If it was only modernized as you pretend, why would Dassault spend so much time and money the develop the M2000?? for fun, nothing else to do, bored, need to keep their employees busy???
Those planes have the same lineage, from the same company, still they are differents. I suggest you get some good reading materials about the Mirage III and Mirage 2000, then talk or in the case of this forum write.
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