The “Red” Pipe.

Hi Hennie,
I once again seem to have missed the latest posts on your thread as I have BobKats, so to come up to date The “Red” Pipe you have found immediately suggests to me that the “Red” paint on it is actually applied PX Preservative. There were 2 types used, RED and Green versions I know one was called:- “PX-9” (Think this is what is on your pipe.) This stuff was used a lot in my early days in RAF and it is not nice stuff. This makes me think your steel pipe is engine related, probably engine oil usage as most hydraulic systems used tungum or brass pipes. This RED is certainly not “OM-15” Hydraulic fluid, as that stuff goes brown and sticky if left exposed and none would be showing after 70 years underground—wheras, “PX-9” would. —— So why do I think “PX-9”. I’ve seen this plastered all over unused piston (Military) Engines in the past and look at Peters Lanc engine pics. in BobKats thread on 908 and you will see it applied on engines and systems.

I’d also say that this stuff was left on Lancasters engines in WW2 because time was of the essence and speed was a priority in rectification and engine changes, so washing this “PX” off was never considered and even if someone did wash it off, there was always places they could not reach. Anyhow, thats my thoughts on why that pipe is RED. Hope this helps. Best of luck with your continued search for bits. Come back here often, I’ll watch out from now on—–lol !!
ps:-
If you handle this “PX” stuff, always wash hands after use.

Bill T.

Wanted M.B. Mk3A Seat Raising Handle assy C/plete. Swops available.

Still looking for a complete Martin Baker Mk 3A Seat Raising /Lowering Handle assy. C/plete. (For my Valiant seat) Other Mk3 seat handles should do the job too.

And 2x Wide type Bottom Pull Handles for same seats. Pics. 5 and 6 show seats with these items fitted.

Have these pics. of spares for swaps,etc. PM me if any interest and i can amplify further details and pics.

Mainly stuff on left of table is Sea- Hawk New and used spares.(except for Control Unit Type S–8B/2015 and 927–10l/16192 and Avon Engine idling Adj Tool (NEW ) The small pulleys are 1-3/8″ Dia and OK. The fuel **** is a Saunders type (3/8″ pipe) 3 Position switch isn’t Sea- Hawk. The early 1950’s bits at bott left are what we rescued off WV-903’s centre section before it left Hooton Park.and are heavy duty junction boxes/Resistance rectifier units and those small 3 pin brown Armament plugs.

Table centre is new/used Voltage regulators–V Bomber Inertial Navigation controller (Upside down–duhhh !!!! ) Peltor ear defenders and Life raft Valise type:-ZM and Desynn Position indicators type 2.(NEW )

Table (Right) is Liferaft Bellows Handpump and Holder (Seems new ) and Manufacturers Model of A-380 Airbus. Thrown out because of damage there are most bits there but missing stbd. T/plane. ( Modellers fun ).

On chair are Beaufort passenger Immersion Suit Mk 1 holder (Empty) and NBC Resirator Transit Haversack.

Thanks,

Bill T.

Hi Alpha Charlie,
Try a PM to Forumite:- Terry P. His well known ,complete Swiss Venom C/pit on trailer could be going.

Bill T.

Welcome Gerry,
Ah !! Yes Andy, knew there was something about that table and now you mention the indian (Or far East )connection, this brings to mind( looking at the “open “weave” lower fence or wall around this design) of idea’s I saw in a lot of these size of artifacts on a transit through Singapore in 1962. Although these were churned out by local craftsmen they were and still are nice bits of kit. You could of course talk with the man making you a personal table and get it fitted with your idea’s. So my money is with you on this being a personalised item from that area and pre-52 era. Very nostalgic bit of kit from those days in RAF.

I know that these Far East /Indian Craftsmen were still making this stuff into 1980’s and exporting it, as I saw lots in upper market shopping malls up in Muscat, Oman at that time. These would be 1980’s build, but,—-still nice stuff !! (Unpersonalized ).

Bill T.

Well done , Blue 2 for tackling this “Baby”,
Note that Roberts Post 25. His pics. 3-4-5-6-7 are of a Sea-Hawk C/pit and Mk 2D MB Seat. He must have mixed up his pics at the time of post,——- something we all do. :confused: Nice to see the help from forumites.

I was very,very lucky to be able to wangle a back seat ride in an RAAF Meteor T7 way back in 1963 in Australia. Brilliant experience, had to hold canopy just open whilst taxiing in/out and the sortie was several diving attacks on RAAF Edinburgh Field Tech area to aid a ground based camera tech operation. The noise of sitting close to 2 Derwent engines on full song was something that still lives with me to this day. This meatbox was still fitted with non ejection seats and was piloted by the (RAF) Technical Boss of the RAAF heavy overhaul section based there at that time. He was on loan service from RAF. This unit deep overhauled, Canberra’s–Dakota’s–Bristol Freighters–Meteors and I got loads of rides in them all too on Air tests. (But not Canberra ). So good luck with project Blue 2.

Bill T.

Hi jet Driver,
Very interesting SeaHawk 2D Seat you have there. It’s also in remarkably ,very good,original condition. What is amazing to find these days is that your seat is so complete. I owned 2x 2D Seats which have now gone to other enthusiasts, the best and last seat going to Forumite :- Ian. (If you go back through:- Cockpit and Instrument Panels Projects Thread —,should be info and pics. on his seat). But his Seat was missing lots more parts than yours, but I know he is looking hard and has had some success in locating bits.

Ians seat was fitted with the lower feet supports, as have been all seats I’ve ever come across, which makes your seat the first one I personally have seen pics. of with the lower pull handle and feet supports removed. So yours has been modified. Operating systems were mostly the same on series 2 and 3 seats,noticable differences being the lower seat pans altered a-la sprung “Batwings” for the 2D seat and “dropped” seat pan for the Mk 3’s. The Mk 3 Series of seats(as far as know) were all fitted with a lower pull handle and the top pull handle. These came from the modification of the Mk 2 Seats to this effect. (I’ve 2 Mk3A Seats myself-Valiant, well stripped and one very badly corroded-but can be re-built over time). Cannot see if your seat has a crotch harness strap or not, but then again I’m not actually sure if one was fitted in those modified Mk2 and early Mk3 seats.

So all the operating bits you have on your seat are duplicated on other Mk 2 seats, which means maybe more “Spares” available. I do have a few bits around and will have a search. (Hope you aren’t in a rush) Notable missing bits on your seat appear to be the main parachute pack(as you say) and a PSP —Emergency Oxygen Bottle—Main Firing G*** With Top Firing mechanism and Sear and safety pin—Main rear bulkead Seat Guide rail. Cannot see if you have the rear G** Sear pull cable and also the Seat pan”Snubber” Units that the 2 Leg restraint lines pass through and the actual arrangement of lower pull handle and operating closed cabling link assy. (Could you post some more pics. of these areas ? )

I have a copy of the spares Schedule (Vol3 ) for the Hunter 2H Seat, which I have used for a long time now to ID bits and it has worked very well. The first bottom pull handles had a slim long “Loop” and I didn’t know till just recently that the “Wide Loop” bott Pull Handle on your seat was also fitted to the Valiant V’s in their very last years, which appears to be in early 1960’s, So how that fits in with your lower handle originality is an educated guess. I’m sure that the German Navy Seahawks would have been fitted with these,rather than the earlier “Long Loop” ones, but this post isn’t long enough for explanations. Also, I suspect that the German Navy 2D seats had fibreglass PSP’s with the Emergency Oxygen Bottle in the front of the PSP or under front of seat pan,( but jury is still out on these as don’t have concrete proof yet. So will keep researching and ask one very well informed ex-RAF seat man i know. )

Your 2D Seat must have come out of long term indoor storage or a Museum,because it looks to me like a 1960’s time capsule. The Blue Seat harness’s are correct for these early seats as are the drogue TDU pull drop arms dangling in situ. The top Drogue chutes cover “Flaps” are in remarkably good condition for something that is over 50 years old. Even the Face blind Cloth strap looks OK. These seats had 2 parachutes inside that top box:- a small 15″ one pulled out by the drogue g**billet attached to the lanyards when fired, which in turn pulls out the bigger 30 “Seat stabilizing Drogue parachute, that connects to seat top cross”Scissors” via the longer ,heavier lanyard. Your Mic Tel lead isn’t sheared off or damaged either and all the little special metal clips are there too, so your seat is a real rarity as during my searching for spares in the past I was always told that Ex-Military stuff disposed of by Armed Forces from 1960’s on was always scrapped immediately. So you have a real survivor from the German Navy SeaHawks days.

Terry P lives a few miles from me and we share info a lot. He has an MB Mk 3 Seat in his ex-Swiss Air Force Venom C/pit, that both he and I have co-opted to find correct bits for.
Some 5 years ago now, Terry faced the same problem you face now, he had no Pilots Parachute for his C/pit. Obtaining a basic para Harness from a prop driven A/c (Via evil bay) and then a correct buckle assy, next the correct para “ripcord” handles, wires,and wide strap from an Aerojumble and an empty Parachute”Pack” off a local enthusiast he sat down and re-stitched his harness to the Mk 2 Seat configuration (Using my parachute as a guide). And made up a correct Pilots parachute, identical to mine and one you need. So as these things are now Unobtanium, this is an idea for you. Oh yes!! We could not find the correct back pad that is attached so he made his own out of old linen sail material and foam inner. I’m timed out now as far as family is concerned, so I’ll find pics and stuff and post em up here again.

Best of luck with your seat restoration.

Bill T.

Don’t forget about Victor XL-161.

I don’t know where the idea that XL512 undertook bombing trials as it only had two test flights before it was converted to a Blue Steel aircraft and it certainly did not drop one of these. I collected it from the then HSA Woodford February 1976 and she was my aircraft until I finished Crew Chief duties in July 1078. She was flown by 55 Squadron until 57 converted to the K2 Both 100 and 139 Squadron dropped a Blue Steel at the Aberporth Range in l these aircraft were XH673 139 Squadron 27/5/67 and XL190 100 Squadron 27/5/67. XL512 was loaned to the then Ministry of Technology 22/12/69t0 HP Park Street 8/1/70.
It took 14 Test Flights at Woodford before it was delivered to RAF Marham by HSA Test Crew on the 12/2/76. I was there at that time.

Roger Brooks ex RAF Victor Crew Chief

Hi Roger,
Victor XL-161 was one of the 2 main V-bombers used to drop /fire the Blue Steel Missiles out in Australia over the / Woomera / Maralinga Ranges of South Australia. The other one was Vulcan XH-539. RAF Unit 4 JSTU took over these firings from Hawker Siddely Dynamics and Handley Page at RAAF Edinburgh Field, Adelaide.1963-through to April 1965 when the UK Labour Government cancelled those trials. The 2 manufacturers were using the Aircraft out there from around 1958-ish !!!
As a serving RAF J/T at the time ,I was posted onto 4 JSTU as a working member of the Victor XL-161 team and we must have carried out around 25+ Blue Steel Air Drop/Firings, with the Vulcan carrying out around the same amount. You are correct about loading the Blue Steel onto the Victor, that was the procedure used by us too.

XL-161 was to my mind one Victor that should have been saved for posterity, because she was the only Victor to have got into a spin with a Blue Steel Missile on board and recovered. She jettisoned her missile onto Gawler mud flats and only recovered because the Pilot I/C ( who was HSD’s Test Pilot ) streamed the Aircraft brake chute and that stopped the spin. Aircraft recovered to base OK and I’ve seen pics. of the whole crew drunk that evening. ( lol—well you would, wouldn’t you ) All those Aircrew on board that flight have now passed away except for John Saxon who is still with us.
This happened in July 1962 and the Aircraft was checked out and declared sevicable for test Flying again. I arrived in October 1962 and very quickly found out about this event as at all Flight Inspections,etc. there was a permanent Red Line entry in the F 700 mandating inspections of the very big inboard top of wings skin “wrinkles” caused by that spin. She flew all further test flights as sound as a bell, then back to UK in 65 and after a while was re-fitted to the tanker role. With the movable nose flaps replaced with fixed ones and the wing “wrinkles” removed.

I bumped into her out in Goose Bay in 1971-2 and again in Oman, Thumrait in early 1990’s. She was scrapped at Lyneham around 1993 and I’ve seen the colour pics. of that (orrible to see !!!!) So to my mind, the Airfix model should be based on Victor XL-161.

Bill T.