Frazer NashWasn’t there one a few years ago? I remember reading about some of the artifacts (clapper board, Heinkel nose section) being displayed, and many of the film personnel being there. Can’t remember if that was in Flypast…or ‘[I]that[I] other magazine’….:eek:
Frazer NashAll three, I’d suggest. He disliked the greenhouse because it sent up ‘ripples’ of airstream that hurt his eyes, as he flew without helmet or goggles.
Frazer NashI’ll stand corrected, but I thought Albert Ball removed a lot of what he considered to be ‘ancilliary’ items added by the Royal Aircraft Factory, including the fairing and the ‘glasshouse’ windscreen.
Frazer NashWell, I’m exhausted, let’s go to the pub.
Frazer NashFN…………
Good to see we are both “facing in roughly the same direction”!!!!
As said earlier really don’t feel qualified to express an opinion on the subject. Suffice it to say that in my view the politicians have a lot more answer for than the military men. In the end they did control the show and still do.
Planemike
Ain’t that the truth. Look at the way AVM Harris was thrown to the wolves, with politicians ducking for cover left, right and centre. We haven’t really progressed too far, have we?
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it!
Frazer NashFN…………..
None of my offerings were in any way intended to be offensive to you or any one else. I do not think you are are a moron. I do not think every one is stupid but some members of the human race do put that to the test on occasions…….!!!!
I have not seen the documentary you referred to, although I am sure I would find it interesting. If you read my postings carefully you will find I have made no comment one way or the other re. AVM Harris and the decisions he made. I don’t feel qualified to express an opinion.
However where I do have a view is re: the right of people to protest. You and I are fortunate to live in countries where people can do that without incurring the wrath of the authorities. Long may that continue. As I said I have not seen the programme you refer to but if a lady is holding a placard in a non violent protest then so be it, she is living in a democracy and is entitled to have her say even if it may be offensive to some. If the event was in a place public then that protest is OK to me. If she had broken into a private event then it is more difficult to defend.
I applied the word “ridiculous” only to your asertion that only those who had been present at an event could hold a view or an opinion. If that were the case it would limit the study of history somewhat.
As I said at the beginning I intended no offence to anyone, just wanted to defend the right of someone to hold an opposing opinion. As you will see this thread has brought forward a range of opinion. Long live democracy, so that all of us can have the right to express those opinions.
Planemike
Thank you Mike that was very kind of you to take the time to explain your words. As I said, I do apologise for allowing my temper to show!
This thread has demonstrated a remarkable ability to grow legs, and this wasn’t my original intention. I can’t remember where I read that “as long as you want the freedom to wave the flag, you must allow the same freedom to the person standing next to you to burn it.”
Frazer NashIn all wars there are rights and wrongs on both sides.
My point was to take issue with FN over his assertion that only those there can have an opinion. Clearly that is not so, we can and do have opinions on all sorts of issues when and where we were not present.
Planemike
There is no assertion that “only those there can have an opinion.”
How stupid do you consider everyone else to be?
What an extraordinarily condescending comment, and downright rude.
*I apologise to thread users for my temper showing through.
Frazer NashF N…………
You weren’t there
You don’t know
You can only imagine
And that’s not the same.This is patently a ridiculous position to hold, it precludes anyone from having a view on any historical event unless they were present. For example, I (nor anyone living today) was present at the French Revolution but if I study history I can form a view on the events that took place.
Different opinions may be held but that surely was the whole point of fighting for our freedoms, leastways I thought so.
Planemike
Mike, please try and refrain from referring to my position as ‘patently ridiculous’. I am not a moron, and do not take ‘ridiculous’ stances on any subject.
The initial intent of this thread was to ascertain the feeling of folks towards AVM Harris, and the bombing of civilians.
I do not, under any circumstances, consider holding a sign that says “MASS MURDERER” to be expression of an opinion. It is a disgraceful and utterly despicable act akin to that of a lynch mob, and especially typical of the self-indulgent, self-satisfied, self-important and self-proclaimed spokespersons of today.
Yes indeed Mike, you can form any view you want. But you don’t go and display degrading and offensive signs at a meeting of folks who don’t share your view. Especially on a subject as hurtful and painful to so many.
Frazer NashArthur Travers Harris “Bomber Offensive”…………
The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
His statement sums it all up for me, under his command and thanks to the bravery of all those who went to war on all fronts we enjoy the freedoms we have today and for decades to come.
I would have loved to have been there when said person was protesting about someone she knew absolutely nothing about, she wouls have gone home minus the sign and not being able to sit down for a long while:diablo:.
Regards,
John.
An absolutely beautiful quote John, it’s always been one of my favourites of Harris. I’ll stand corrected, but I seem to recall that when the “1000 plan” took place over Cologne, leaflets were dropped by Bomber Command stating : The offensive of the RAF in its new form has begun
And I have to admit, if that dopey woman wanted to display her sign in front of me or quite a few of my mates, then ‘freedom of speech’ would suffer a terrible blow, via much violence ensuing.
Frazer NashSadly the prevailing attitude is “Who?”
But, there are still a significant number of us to whom the man is a hero who has been very badly served by the country he served so well.
And there is a loony fringe who view him as a mass-murderer.
Regrettably the freedom he fought for allows those people to stand around in public with their fatuous notices.
I doubt he’d have wanted it any different.
Moggy
Yes, that’s a good call Moggy. My favourite reply to folks who want to try and apply new millenium attitudes (self-absorbed and smug as they are) onto past historic events is:
You weren’t there
You don’t know
You can only imagine
And that’s not the same.
Frazer NashAhhh yes, silly me. Well, everything will be alright then. Can everyone please disregard this thread? :diablo:
Frazer NashHi Paul,
Did you go along to the Airways Museum film night the other week? Well worthwhile. They also have an open day coming up.They’re at Essendon. Use it or lose it, eh?
I stumbled across the Airways Museum (whatever you do, don’t call it Air Traffic Control…) by accident about 3 years ago. “Amazing” doesn’t begin to describe it: it’s an aspect of aviation I paid little heed to in the past. The folks there were exceptionally helpful when I wrote an article for the United Firefighters’ Union magazine on secondary airport fire cover.
I wrote to the “Close Essendon Airport Committee” via email a few days ago, asking the questions about the Police Airwing, the Air Ambulance, the RFDS and various flying schools, and where they thought they should relocate to. No reply yet…….
More’s to the point, if they close the drome down and use the land for a new real estate development, what do you reckon a block of dirt that close to the CBD with a beautiful view of the city in ‘old money’ Essendon would be worth? $700,000? $800,000? Doesn’t exactly leave it open for the average punter, does it?
Frazer NashJust out of interest, are there enough Stirling bits and pieces floating around for one to be assembled? There certainly seems to be enough enthusiasm and experts! What a stunning project that would be, sitting up on that humungous undercarriage!
Frazer NashThe word is Ms Greer is an Australian, however, aside from appearing from the sewers every now and then to take a swipe at her former countrymen, I do believe she considers herself a native of the Mother Country. And quite frankly…you’re welcome to her!
I have contacted the “Close Essendon Airport Committee” (it was always ‘Essendon Aerodrome’ when I was growing up) and questioned a few of the ‘facts’ stated on their website.
Can’t wait to see what the reply is!
Frazer NashWell OK, just to bring it back into context….I noticed the use of MH434 during the 1st season on a ‘secret’ airfield testing Chain Home. Can folks offer me a suggestion as to which airfield this is, being as I am one of the deported colonials? :p
I seem to remember reading Clive Denny ending up in the series somewhere, but couldn’t pick him…any clues?
Anyway, the Karma Sutra aside, it was an excellent series, and I say again: a brilliant example of UK drama that seems completely beyond the abilities of Australian TV producers.
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