On pricing… recall first GAO and JET were conservative on the numbers, proved to be underestimating the situation at hand. Next, CAPE is in line as conservative and underestimating the F-35 outlook. 🙁 An unfortunate and hard reality of an unsustainable and flawed program, I’m sorry.
And for discussion sake, if you go to your grocer one day and find out the meat has been increased $2/lb, but then the next day it is reduced .50 cents and claims it is a sale, is that a discount?
A Pak Fa naval option by 2018 would be fearsome whether for USN or RN, no doubt, but the manufacturer’s host govt would of course need to do some courting and work in building up trust and reassurance, etc to reach such a state. Whereby, a fighter selection is very much an intimate decision, while a particular fighter contestant in the decision process is merely raw technology on the bidding block, requiring a broader inter-relationship in the equation.
As a Yank with some English and French ancestry, I couldn’t support this development more – and in fact have supported it for years. (getting tired already from the effort)!
It’s only logical. God speed.
p.s. and indeed disregard any rogue opinions against such an improved strategic relationship, as nothing more than normal hysterics on msg forums such as this.
I’ve considered this F-35 alternative before and I will propose it again now given my latest analysis… UK should study an IOC 2018 Tejas-Naval LCA ski-jump capable airframe, powered by a 10-15% upgraded thrust-vectoring EJ200 version.
Keep the QE as is – with a ski-jump – and stop the plan for the multi-100s million dollar CATOBAR retrofit plan. Spend that multi-hundred millions sterling on the EJ200x upgrade development. Order around 40x LCA-naval as a friendly gesture for reciprocal support for an EF-Typhoon MRCA selection 🙂 while still getting a credible future carrier jet in the end.
As for PoW, that carrier can more fully be decided on later, with regards to being a CATOBAR-upgrade improved capability and able to launch RAFALE-M, or Super Hornet III, or F-35C, etc.
But keep the first CVF boat as cheap as possible while still operating an affordable and capable jet.
Just trying to save UK some sterling while maximizing defence. Respects-
see the benefits of cross-pollination of knowledge between various vendors comprising the diffferent development teams who may have worked on similar technologies in previous projects, often with techies whom they are now competing against.
As mabie said, too…
Perhaps we’ll know more by end of 2011.
I wonder why DARPA would be funding a duplicate program that is covers the same goals as JDRADM?
Interesting… I’d have to concur w/ that. It’s indeed somewhat puzzling given the limited info reported in relation to the supposedly ongoing JDRADM program.
Maybe new component tech which is being matured via the JDRADM project, simply requires mating under a larger missile body to accomplish more ambitious requirements, including long range, etc, under a T3 architecture? We’ll have to see.
imho, USN should license-build QE class (UK supplying powerplants) in lieu of future Ford class CVN probably costing over $10b per pop long term. Maybe could retain/mix 5 Nimitz, 1 Ford with 6 QE by 2025? USN should at least LEASE one of the QE, if nobody else knocked.
If anything, it would appear someone is confident Oil will remain north of say, $75 bucks forever, no?
And have to say those 5,100x 2k pounders listed, could really nail somebody back to the stone age, sheesh.
But I’m be curious if the -15S is getting any sort of CFT too? Or would they remain mostly as Air Defense? You’d think with SA’s budget they’d at least have the AMRAAM holding “FASTpack” CFT on their F-15S (maybe integrating twin internal IRSTs or something, mounted – 1 each) and delete the big wing tanks?
With that upgrade kit though, they’re basically getting 70x Golden Eagle!@% Or better! (better power upgrade for sure) 😮 One could wonder if USAF will have to wait in line now for it’s own (V)3?
FASTpack CFT –
image credit: http://www.aeroflight.co.uk
Vishnu – Thanks for the follow up. Very interesting.
And I hope you get the opportunity to write up your personal experiences while in the back seat of the F-35 one day soon! Oh, nvm.. :rolleyes:
But when an A-10 limps home… it is mission-killed… That means the Marines do without CAS until it is repaired.
A better alternative is to use F-35 for CAS from 40K ft with PGMs where the JTAC can verify target coordinates using the downlinked video from EOTS..
DJ, with all due respect, how many A-10s could you afford (2nd hand from AF) for the cost of one LRIP F-35B? So what if your one A-10 is out of service for the battle, you still have 3 more? 4? (while your F-35B is undergoing maintenance and the grunts are calling in for support?)
And what’s to stop an A-10 from employing the same PGM from 35k ft (40k might be stretching it for the F-35B) as the A-10, via verified downlinked Litening G4 data (an even surperior A2G sensor than sniper based EOTS) could do?
http://www.aidc.com.tw/news/newsShow.asp?NewID=100
2010/10/13
AIDC official press release. AIDC upgrades 71 Ching Kuo IDF, from 2010 to 2012.
First batch of six: four single-seaters and two double-seaters arrived at AIDC on 21 September 2010. The first upgraded IDF will be delivered by the end of the year.
A cranked delta wouldn’t by chance be part of that upgrade, eh!? 😀
That would perhaps be the coolest looking jet in the world I think. I’m sure they could sell too under a joint production — esp in this financial tightening climate going forward.
Great read, Vish
Vish that was a fascinating and insightful perspective to read and your impartiality is a strength for sure – is there a fighter jet you just didn’t like to fly in!! 😀
A couple questions if you read this and get the time to respond… did you reach supercruise in any other fighter other than NG demonstrator(?), did you request to supercruise in say the block 60 or mig 35 as well, when pilots asked you what you wanted(?) and can you remark on the exact sc mach you reached while flying the Gripen @ 23k??
If I also could ask … I’m curious if you’ve had the chance to try on Gripen’s new HMD helmet, with regards to your impression of the MiG’s helmet?
And from reading your article, I can almost see LM, Boeing, SAAB et al scrambling to come up with some trendy new gloves ! 😉
Regards… and future peace and security to that neck of the woods.
Good thread and good idea imo, Madrat.
I’ve too supported this transfer concept recently, since the LAAR proposal and think it would also make sense to help relieve some of USAF’s tactical maintenance budgets while redistributing the intimate CAS capabilities where the keen interest of such a role exists. As ST-21 suggests; the idea has made sense in the past and makes fundamental sense now, although it is a matter of timing when concerning the paradigm shift necessary for such a transfer and doctrine, etc. Perhaps the time could be now (for numerous reasons)?
So I’d conceive support for at least USMC-USAF split structure. Maybe there could be a joint ‘maintenance depot’ between the 3 services, if Army took some as well. If F-35B was suspended, and USMC continued as a fast jet operator, I’d suspect they’d go with at least some Super Hornet procurement, possibly mixing with the Hog.
Out of these three which is the most likely?
Unfortunately jessmo, not likely any of the above, at least when staying the course. The Active duty and ANG/AFRES will continue to consolidate (far outpacing new F-35 acquisition), for one thing since full sustainment of aging jets will be unsustainable and not compatible with the ongoing F-35 procurement policy decided upon. The future tacair inventory will therefore be reduced more than expected by 2020’ish, unfortunately.
How, with a DoD base budget of $520b to spend, the USAF can only afford 12-22 jets is frustrating indeed, but it is what it is and will likely only be compounded as buying power decreases and outright base budgets are reduced over the decade for financial reasons if nothing else. That is, it will totally conflict with plans for FRP ramp up, as budgets will need to be increased if wishing to afford everything it wants, e.g. tankers, NGB, 80x F-35A per yr, etc.
Take MADL upgrade for F-22 for instance. Reportedly, no money for it. If F-22 can’t even properly upgrade as planned and it becomes a budget battle each FY just to keep on track of the spiral plan… how can ANG/AFRES afford new jets staying this course? How can the F-35As that are acquired be assured of timely block IV upgrades and weapons upgrades etc, when the primary pressure (and strategy) will be on pumping out maximal new airframes at all cost!? Can you see this trend repeating itself? It’s the harsh reality, nothing more, when holding to something as rigidly on this massive a scale in times of fiscal chaos – things will break. imho.
edit: given recent hints by top brass that ANG will likely be concentrating more on flying ‘simulators’ in the near-future, it would not surprise me if by around 2018 or so, each single operational F-35A jet could have a pool of something like 2 Active AF pilots and 2 ANG pilots to work with given the higher than expected looming shortfall.
Well if fuel economy is a top concern and I wouldn’t disagree at all, then we might also include LCA Tejas into the pot? With CFT and a single F414 it would probably cruise farther in a two-sidewinder config, than anything else in the group also CFT equipped? Perhaps SABR would fit, or just keep the production AESA as is? It might even have the highest T/W of the field? I’m going with the assumption it could be in production within 4 yrs. Defense budget wise though, we are starting to see the writing on the wall which unfortunately makes this moot i’m afraid.