SSS-666Yelling won’t make you right, nor will it make the uncomfortable questions go away.
But why, if your case is so strong, do you insist on the debate being conducted on your terms and yours alone?
I have posed you two quite clear, practical and sensible questions which you have so far been quite unable to answer, to wit:
1) How could such a massive, wide-ranging and expensive conspiracy be kept secret for so long?
2) What is the substantial evidence for your proposition that the Moon landings were a hoax?
But wait… the hour is late. Let us call a pause, and continue this most interesting discussion on the morrow. Or later today, in fact.
Like I side, beating your skinny chest and yelling USA USA is the topic of another Forum at a FOX Network web site.
As for the 2 question you posed. The first one is an illogical one, and I think irrelevant at this point. Who knows, maybe later on, by some strange twist of fate, it becomes relevant.
And, the substantial evidence you are asking for, has been provided by thousands of mythbusters already. I really think it may be helpful if you visited the web site I attached. Then you can tell me which evidence is not right, or why I, along with the evidence at that site, am wrong.
That way we can discuss tangibles.
SSS-666what are you trying to prove by creating this thread anyways? Nothing the Iranians can get, whether it be Su-34 or a J-10, could be able to stand up to hordes of F-15s, F-16s, etc.. because if it ever came down to an air war, a coalition of US and whatever allied forces they will muster, is most likely to hold both a qualitative and quantitive advantage and Iran forced to rely on either strategic weapons or a ground war and wear them out.
As for the options.. the Su-34 has yet to go into large scale production.. if you needed something now, the best you can get are Su-30MKs. Why no MiGs? Because the MiG-31’s Zaslon radar has already been compromised.. MiG hasn’t built any new MiG-31s in over a decade, and any new models would most likely come off of ex RuAF stock.. but still leaves it with it’s compromised radar. The MiG-29? Iran already has the A version, and from what I’ve read.. haven’t been too impressed with it and use it in limited number of roles.. primarily the role it was designed for.. point interceptor.
got a problem with Mr Silvio?
Personally, no. I don’t have any problems with the guy. BUT, everybody else does.
Damn, I sure hope he doesn’t sue me. He seems to be good at it.
SSS-666Do I have to yell or what. THE ARGUMENT ABOUT THE SECONDARY ISSUES SUCH AS THE “ROCKS” OR THE “DIFFICULTIES” OF KEEPING THE HOAX A SECRET IS MISLEADING AND ILLOGICAL.
Hey everybody, look what I have to deal with!
Pick a photo, or video from NASA’s own web site, and prove to me it is not a fake. I guess that is the same thing the Iranians have to prove, A NEGATIVE.
No really, I would love to be convinced. Just pick a photo and tell me why I am wrong to see 3 different shadows angles, the wind blowing, or a wire lifting the Astro-not off the ground.
SSS-666Do I have to yell or what. THE ARGUMENT ABOUT THE SECONDARY ISSUES SUCH AS THE “ROCKS” OR THE “DIFFICULTIES” OF KEEPING THE HOAX A SECRET IS MISLEADING AND ILLOGICAL.
Hey everybody, look what I have to deal with!
Pick a photo, or video from NASA’s own web site, and prove to me it is not a fake. I guess that is the same thing the Iranians have to prove, A NEGATIVE.
No really, I would love to be convinced. Just pick a photo and tell me why I am wrong to see 3 different shadows angles, the wind blowing, or a wire lifting the Astro-not off the ground.
SSS-666Sorry, SSS-666. I just don’t buy it.
How on Earth could such a wide-ranging and far-reaching conspiracy be kept secret for so long?
Think how few people were actually involved in Watergate – yet that didn’t stay secret for very long and eventually cost Nixon the Presidency.
Yet you’re asking us to believe in a vast and secret conspiracy that involved the astronauts themselves, their families, all of the aerospace companies and their workers who built the rockets, spacecraft, rovers, spacesuits, launchpads, etc., as well as those who supplied them with the raw materials they needed in addition to all of the people involved in the production of the models, film sets, props, etc needed for your “hoax”.
And not one person talked. Not one person spilled the beans about a vast conspiracy that was defrauding the US taxpayer of billions of dollars. How likely is that?
And another thing that hoax believers take for granted – just how sophisticated do you think visual special effects were in 1969? You can rule out CGI, for a start!
Show me one piece of irrefutable evidence that indicates that the Moon landings were a hoax and I’ll admit that at least you have a point.
Until then………
The argument about “how hard it is to keep a hoax of this magnitude” is typical and misleading. Not to mention illogical.
What do you consider irrefutable?
Tell me which video or pic used in the web site I attached you can prove wrong. Then we go there.
SSS-666Sorry, SSS-666. I just don’t buy it.
How on Earth could such a wide-ranging and far-reaching conspiracy be kept secret for so long?
Think how few people were actually involved in Watergate – yet that didn’t stay secret for very long and eventually cost Nixon the Presidency.
Yet you’re asking us to believe in a vast and secret conspiracy that involved the astronauts themselves, their families, all of the aerospace companies and their workers who built the rockets, spacecraft, rovers, spacesuits, launchpads, etc., as well as those who supplied them with the raw materials they needed in addition to all of the people involved in the production of the models, film sets, props, etc needed for your “hoax”.
And not one person talked. Not one person spilled the beans about a vast conspiracy that was defrauding the US taxpayer of billions of dollars. How likely is that?
And another thing that hoax believers take for granted – just how sophisticated do you think visual special effects were in 1969? You can rule out CGI, for a start!
Show me one piece of irrefutable evidence that indicates that the Moon landings were a hoax and I’ll admit that at least you have a point.
Until then………
The argument about “how hard it is to keep a hoax of this magnitude” is typical and misleading. Not to mention illogical.
What do you consider irrefutable?
Tell me which video or pic used in the web site I attached you can prove wrong. Then we go there.
SSS-666Does that settle the issue? F-22A is the one.
So, a country that can purchase the plane (I mean the US friendly countries) can set aside just
about all of its inventory and invest on this one plane? Or is that a bad Idea?As for countries that are not US friendly, like………..hell I don’t know………..Iran. What choices
do they have? And, if you were to pick for them, then, which one?Wouldn’t that brings the choice down to Russia, China and …………I don’t know who else has anything worth investing.
Iranians don’t have any money problems, so the quantity wouldn’t be a prob.
You are right Berlusconi, but I did post the quoted post above, in response to SOC’s.
Furthermore, what is the fascination with the soon-to-be-history and lucky-to-avoid-jail Silvio?
SSS-666Ignoring the sarcastic stuff……………..The Astro-nots did in fact go into the orbit. So, anybody
monitoring would have monitored the takeoff. Not to mention a few million viewers that saw the
launch. Furthermore, the footage used on the sites discussing this stuff is directly from NASA.
So, that is not an argument I would sugest.
As for the Occam’s Razor, just because one is paranoid about people being after him, it doesn’t
mean they are not.
And, as for losing 2 out of 5 Crafts, anyway you look at it 2 out of 5 got blown up.
SSS-666Ignoring the sarcastic stuff……………..The Astro-nots did in fact go into the orbit. So, anybody
monitoring would have monitored the takeoff. Not to mention a few million viewers that saw the
launch. Furthermore, the footage used on the sites discussing this stuff is directly from NASA.
So, that is not an argument I would sugest.
As for the Occam’s Razor, just because one is paranoid about people being after him, it doesn’t
mean they are not.
And, as for losing 2 out of 5 Crafts, anyway you look at it 2 out of 5 got blown up.
SSS-666Amusing last 2 posts.
Guys, pay attention, Iran can not buy European or American planes. So, they are left only with
the Eastern Block and China. Doh.
I was wondering why no Migs were suggested by anybody???
SSS-666AAAHHHH, how easy it is to dismiss someone’s opinion by calling it a conspiracy theory.
Wouldn’t it be just the best, for those who want to continue the Navy Forum, to just do it in the
General Discussion area?
Go for it. And, we will see what happens. If the reason is not what the “conspiracy theorist”
assume it to be, then why not?
After all, if we are all wrong about the reason, then what harm would come out of just getting
together with a few other Naval enthusiasts and chat? Huh?
Hell, I am carrying a discussion about the Fake Moon Landings. So, why not discussions about
the DPRK’s Navy, secret American Naval Subs or the feasibility of the Iranians having tens of
Mini Subs in the Persian Gulf waters? Don’t forget to attach pics of a few experimental and secret vessels.
SSS-666If you only knew how anti conspiracy theory I am, and how much I deplore “them”. But, you have to agree, if one wanted to mask a true conspiracy, like the fake Moon landings, who best would serve their purpose.
Just throw in a few far fetch, and down right stupid, conspiracy theories and watch many many morons buy it.
When I first saw the stuff about the fake Moon landings, I thought …………….. no way. But, after reading so many for and against articles and pics, I am 100% convinced they were fake.
Logic tells us that if with today’s technology and the ability to fit a computer the size of a football stadium, in the 60s, into a laptop, today, we can not even land an unmanned craft on the Moon or Mars properly. How could we do it 40 years ago as if it were a backyard dash.
Anyway, the web sites are pretty much the best source and they are convincing. From the lack of stars, to the wires that show up pulling the Astro-nots up on their feet, to picture of the Earth stuck on the window, to shadows that go in 3 different directions………
Also, I wouldn’t expect a liar with international fame and prestige to simply admit he is a fake hero and a liar. I would look elsewhere for the truth. Besides, the ones that contemplated unexpectedy “died”.
I just wonder why no one with a decent telescope has taken photos of the Moon to prove, or otherwise, the supposed 6 landing sites. I also am aware of the limits of the existing telescope and don’t buy the argument that they can not see what’s on the surface.
The problem with what NASA did, to gain unwarranted hero status, is that it was done in the 60s and the 70s. Today we are pretty sophisticated in our expectations and not easily fooled…….. well some of us. Just look at the 70s technology in the Shuttle fleet. I don’t think losing 2 out of 5 crafts is the best record.
I guess the firecracker explosions and Godzilla destroying a cardboard city is not going to cut it anymore…….. for some of us.
SSS-666If you only knew how anti conspiracy theory I am, and how much I deplore “them”. But, you have to agree, if one wanted to mask a true conspiracy, like the fake Moon landings, who best would serve their purpose.
Just throw in a few far fetch, and down right stupid, conspiracy theories and watch many many morons buy it.
When I first saw the stuff about the fake Moon landings, I thought …………….. no way. But, after reading so many for and against articles and pics, I am 100% convinced they were fake.
Logic tells us that if with today’s technology and the ability to fit a computer the size of a football stadium, in the 60s, into a laptop, today, we can not even land an unmanned craft on the Moon or Mars properly. How could we do it 40 years ago as if it were a backyard dash.
Anyway, the web sites are pretty much the best source and they are convincing. From the lack of stars, to the wires that show up pulling the Astro-nots up on their feet, to picture of the Earth stuck on the window, to shadows that go in 3 different directions………
Also, I wouldn’t expect a liar with international fame and prestige to simply admit he is a fake hero and a liar. I would look elsewhere for the truth. Besides, the ones that contemplated unexpectedy “died”.
I just wonder why no one with a decent telescope has taken photos of the Moon to prove, or otherwise, the supposed 6 landing sites. I also am aware of the limits of the existing telescope and don’t buy the argument that they can not see what’s on the surface.
The problem with what NASA did, to gain unwarranted hero status, is that it was done in the 60s and the 70s. Today we are pretty sophisticated in our expectations and not easily fooled…….. well some of us. Just look at the 70s technology in the Shuttle fleet. I don’t think losing 2 out of 5 crafts is the best record.
I guess the firecracker explosions and Godzilla destroying a cardboard city is not going to cut it anymore…….. for some of us.
SSS-666What? Are you implying that US & UK intelligence agencies closed down the Navy & Army forum…?
As for the closedown, I will relay miss the Navy forum, but a decision have been made, and we have to deal with it… 🙁
I didn’t think I was implying. I thought I was pretty direct.
Yes, it is not only highly probable but likely the UK and more likely the US “intelligence” wanted the forums to be closed.
It would be much easier to simply ask the Administrators, like SOC, straight up as to why. Instead of all these speculations. Although, I see a reluctant, but concerted, effort to put the issue to rest and move on.
Even though it is rather unusual and somewhat bizarre to remove such large and popular submissions.
A little logic points to the contents of the Forum and its availability to the “bad guys”. Which I believe are in fact the other way around.
Hell, who knows, maybe even this discussion, like a few others about the disappearance, will self destruct soon. or, at the least, get locked. I sure hope I am proven wrong. I just hate to be right all the time. It is a curse.
SSS-666Am I wrong to assume there were stuff in those forums (pics, info…..) that were of concern to
the “intelligence” organizations? It is not a far fetch assumption, considering the irrationality of
the US and UK behaviour. AAAhhh, the good old days.
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