vikasrehmanYes, we do because it finally proved to the world the truth about the Pakistani state’s perfidy. They were lying through their teeth, sheltering the MOST WANTED TERRORIST ON EARTH. Even while pretending to be fighting a war on terror.
Those who had any doubts about the nature of the Pakistani state saw those doubts vanish that day.
Cool. Just like the response to the FP article, I hope we will see a response from the concerned countries to the book (probably Pakistani sponsored) claiming that Mullah Omar was living in Afghanistan through and through. Perhaps these countries with highly capable intelligence units, who claimed he was based in Quetta are waiting for an English translation before they respond.
ps. Didn’t you tell me a few days ago that I was on your ignore list? Or do you have a temporary and permanent ignore lists?
vikasrehmanOr maybe, just maybe, all those eye-witnesses on the ground that stated that they saw multiple parachutes, and talked about having assaulted a “Sikh” pilot were actually stating the inconvenient truth
Ever been to a village in Kashmir or India or Pakistan? Enlighten us as to what you think the reference to the “Sikh” pilot meant? IIRC I clarified it on the day this was previously brought up, but you may have forgotten.
Considering I am on your ignore list (or am I not) you may want to ignore this.
vikasrehmanMy goodness. And here I was told by the DGISPR no less, that paragon of truth and objectivity, like our Pakistani expats that “No F-16s were used in the operation, no, never”, with that said how are the poor Indians supposed to find F-16 fragments?
And of course, in a state which is mostly mountainous, India should deploy its forces to find AMRAAM fragments.. because … because… that one AMRAAM doesn’t prove anything. Nothing.
The jews gave India the AMRAAM. The same way the PAF captured an IDFAF pilot and is keeping him captured.
Which proves my point about Pakistani efficiency because they found those motors and seeker heads in the same mountainous state. I just thought Indian forces, having successfully dodged several AMRAAMs, may have a decent notion of their whereabouts. Perhaps not.
vikasrehmanOf course, WC Varthaman was so intensely observing an F-16 (he had just shot down) going down that he did not even realise his Mig-21 had developed a catastrophic failure or a missile was up his rear (take your pick). It must have been the excitement that he didn’t even realise he was in POK when surrounded by locals before being captured (though one cannot blame him for that).
vikasrehman[USER=”22286″]Teer[/USER]
ok Teer, Lara Seligman is lying and acting as an agent for L-M, Bellingcat is in league with Pakistan over doubts about strike efficacy. Most of the other world news organizations have taken sides and are lying for Pakistan over doubts about GoI & Indian media’s depiction of the events.
Sure, Varthaman misspoke when he said he was shot down looking for a target, and happened to shoot a missile seconds before himself being hit and ejecting (and Indian media knew this even before he was returned and was debriefed), the two seater F-16D (one of six in Pakistan) was shot down because eyewitnesses accounts saw two chutes (and they are always reliable). Whew, let’s see, said F-16D went down 8km behind LoC but India, which has satellite’s .which could find such a crash haven’t (even with tracking where it disappeared, according to IAF). So, said F-16D disappeared, no debris, no smoke.
The MiG-21 was found with four missiles, oh except one which wasn’t actually crushed in the crash, the seeker head and tail were miraculously found after detonating and shooting down the disappeared F-16D (I mean it’s not like the seeker head and tail would have been several Km apart in such a scenario). Then the US conspired to Pakistan to leak false information about no missing F-16’s.
Do do I have this right?
So so much for intelligent discussion, I guess NDTV is the only true purveyor of truth. Good to know, I’m out of this thread.
Pakistanis are extremely efficient when it comes to finding small seeker heads and motors. Unfortunately our Indian friends are not so because they have been unable to find any of those AMRAAMs that were fired towards Indian fighters on that day (even after 5 weeks) apart from that single piece of AMRAAM with serial numbers and everything that fell on some poor villager’s head on the day.
vikasrehmanThat’s the kind of post I was thinking about when I wrote making yourself look like fools…
Missiles missing parts indicates an intercept how? Firing only parts of the missile? :stupid:
Evidence? What evidence? Show me any evidence.
Again, saying you have evidence is not evidence. Evidence is evidence.
I thought that proximity fuse in R-73 would destroy the whole missile, but obviously not. Just wondering if these missiles were modified or whether R-73, R-77 design is such that seeker remains impact upon detonation or impact?
vikasrehmanTeer, the two missiles with significant portions missing (seekers and tail ends present for both) might indicate an intercept. Unless I have missed something, all previous reports pointed towards F-16 downing by R-73 and I have not seen anything indicating any R-77 fired. Please let me know if I’m missing something. If no R-77 was used, how could we account for the missing portions of R-77?
vikasrehmanOn an aside, the venom of Indian citizens attacks on Lara Seligman’s twitter after she posted the news story was disheartening to read. She is a reporter, writing about information she received. The notion that the USG or Lockheed is behind a false report is absurd. The US isn’t trying to sell F-16’s to Pakistan, US foreign policy isn’t advocating a reproachment with Pakistan, the US and Pakistan are not allies and have suspended many previous defense arrangements. The US is courting India, Lockheed is trying to sell the F-16 to India, can someone explain how the US being complicit in Pakistan lying about losing an F-16 helps the US or Lockheed in regard to India?
That’s one reason I doubt you will see any official statements from the US state dept. or any other agency in regards to this incident. The above vague comments from DoD and State is about all I’d expect. We are not looking to cut off our nose to spite our face in regards to closer ties with India over positive/negative publicity regarding US weapon system that was designed in the 1970’s.
Before digital revolution, there was less material to read and more time for critical analysis. Now there is so much material out there that one does not even have to look at the other side of the story (human psyche is such that masses would generally only read what supports their beliefs), which stops them from asking questions. An example is how UKIP propagated their pre-brexit referendum slogan of an extra £320 million for NHS every week, how a large number of people bought it without question, and how UKIP disowned it straight after the referendum because it was not true but it had served its purpose. What is most disheartening (to me) is how people are actually discouraged from raising valid questions in group discussions if these questions do not support this group’s ideas, notions, or propaganda. While such practices were common in dictatorships, countries ruled by single parties or a group of people, or controlled democracies, it is scary to see democratic countries following suit, and all in the name of patriotism.
vikasrehmanWonderful…
Both PAF and IAF have more evidence (or they claim to have it), but neither side is willing to put it on the table. USA is playing its own word games. This whole saga can probably be resolved within a very short period of time, but each country has its own agenda. In the meantime, posters from the respective countries, with their ultra nationalist lenses on, are picking and choosing what suits their personal beliefs whilst discarding everything that does not. So typical.
vikasrehmanIt’s wonderful to see how people always bring OBL into into this. Well, only a few weeks back a new book claimed that Mullah Omar had stayed in Afghanistan throughout this period, and only a few clicks away from an American base. The book is currently being translated into English, but it would be interesting to see American, Indian and Afghanistan’s response who always claimed he was in Quetta. Let’s wait for the official response from these countries (there may be none now that Mullah Omar is dead), but it would be interesting.
vikasrehmanIAF has electronic evidence of the kill , People in POK has seen more than 1 chutes in air and there is video evidence for it , Indian MOD knows the pilot who was shot down.
Austin, I visited the region recently, and spoke to a number of people. No one claimed to have seen a second pilot. There were some rumours of an Israeli pilot being captured, but based on hearsay alone and conspiracy theories with nothing to substantiate it. When I asked about two or more shoots being talked about in the videos, some of them did mention seeing a second shoot, but said it was a ‘jet shoot’. Please note this is a mountainous terrain, and although many a people are fairly well educated, they know next to nothing about AF or fighters. From what I could gather it seems to be a pretty high altitude shoot out.
vikasrehmanThe above article was probably planted by state or defence department before an official statement (not sure if we will get one though). In spite of this, those of us who do not want to believe, will find more holes in this and other news stories. I suppose IAF can release whatever evidence they have to counter this news story, but they will probably wait for an official statement.
vikasrehmanAn alternative explanation is that India hit the targets as intended. The actual destruction of those buildings and loss of life would have been too much of an escalation and It was more of a warning.
vikasrehmanNonsensical claims? Lol. I see. Is that what Pakistani posters are now saying about DG ISPR Gafoor’s claims as well then? he is the military’s spokesman isn’t he? And he was as specific as he could be when he was referring to that pilot as well “Inshallah we shall take good care of him”. Looks like they really did take good care of him. 😀
Doesn’t suit your narrative, hence nonsensical claim. Everything else is true though, right? Oh wait, that same DG ISPR Gafoor now does another volte face and ays that F-16s did participate actually and that it is for the US and Pakistan to sort that out..although last time around, he categorically denied they were a part of the strike.. God knows what he’ll do a flip flop on next.
As for RSS, they may be a right wing organization, but then at least they are not a terrorist organization recognized as such by other nations, training and pushing terrorists into multiple neighbouring nations in the name of jihad. In that respect, no one can match Pakistan, that’s for sure. I don’t know if there is anything non right-wing in Pakistan at all. Ghazwa-e-Hind rubbish. Flying the flag of Pakistan on the Red Fort in New Delhi and what not fantasies.
PM Modi did it because he believed it was important enough for him to talk about it. It was an achievement as far as the scientific community and the political establishment is concerned. he doesn’t owe any explanation to anyone as to what he feels like talking about on national TV.
Anyway, now that I see your posts’ quality deteriorating to the same level of Mags76 or whatever new assumed name Yasser takes on, I will not bother to engage much with you either. I thought you were sensible. I was obviously wrong. I prefer to ignore trolls as much as I can rather than stoop to their level.
BA, I do tend to become extra sarcastic sometimes, but it is probably because I am just losing my interest. Everywhere you see there there is fake news and so much blind nationalism. No perspective whatsoever. People cling to what they like in an article and discard what they don’t. Short memory spans. No one is willing to call a spade for what it is, even in this virtual world, where most people don’t know each others’ identities. It is probably just the new digital age, but whatever it is, it is depressing, and is getting worse by the day.
vikasrehmanWhy does that bother you? Doesn’t your PM appear on your national TV on all sorts of occasions? Even trumpeting “2 Indian pilots in custody” which now no one in Pakistan seems to remember?
As for BRF, lets not go there. the level of discussion on some Pakistani defence forums has to be seen to be believed.
PM Khan is always appearing on their national TV making such non-sensical claims. It is just that PM Modi does not seem to be in the same habit, and I was a little surprised when I heard him mentioning this achievement in a rare televised address. I mean only 12 years ago it was considered a non-significant event by our Indian friends, so what was so different with this Indian test that the Indian PM considered it worth mentioning in a rare televised address. Any ideas?
As for the quality of Pakistani fora, I would not know, but I cannot remember the last time i saw any of them being cited on keypubs. In any case I would not worry about their quality, because as per RSS, Pakistan would be integrated into India by 2025 (do I have the right date?) so I expect those fora to be populated by experts from all over south asia which should enhance their quality; if not I’m sure we could set up some rakhshak committee to monitor their quality closely. What is most thrilling to me is the thought of both JF-17 and LCA launched together in defence of Indian airspace, though it may remain a wet dream because I’m sure China would not supply spare parts for JF-17 and the entire fleet would most likely have to be grounded. No big loss though.
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