Indian Sushki.
Dem veritical stabilizers…
Beautiful pics.
Giant of a machine yet great balance.
Correct decision from the SLAF I have to say. JF 17 is available now in operational configuration and SLAF dont have the need for any fancy flying stuff. Tejas is nowhere ready. I remember discussing here once about possible sale of IJT for SLAF requirement but that ended up an egg in the face for HAL and everyone.
But in the end it works out well for the IAF. Chance to check out the capabilities of the main opponent of the IAF for the next decade in the western sector inside out is much better than selling a few airframes.
Still no confirmation about which AF has a quoted it.
SL? Considering their budget constraints and improving relations with India Who knows?
Myanmar? The AF chief was in Pakistan for 4 days at the end of May. And consider the current tensions between Rohingyas and the locals, may be Pakistan is in no hurry to announce?
North Korea? 🙂 Now that would be a sensitive deal indeed.
Great take off. Good loops. But still needs more power. Hopefully that would be addressed from Block III (IIRC only 100 RD-93 were ordered with an option of several hundred) or as part of the mid life update. We know that an enhanced engine was on the cards right from the start. Whether it’d be an upgraded RD-93 or WS-13 (currently being tested on JF-17 and expected to be the powerplant for J-31), only time would tell.
Lots of pilots spend a lot of time in desk jobs and retain type currency. The 2:1 cockpit ratio was actually in an AFM article.
PAF ACM has stated all Mirages will be retired by 2020
That’s understandable and I guess most other AFs do the same. But you want your best and most experienced pilots flying those machines during ops.
As for mirages, its unlikely. At the current production rate, I can see another 60-80 JF-17s entering service by 2020 and without keeping Mirages or F-7s, their squadron strength will deplete severely without induction of another type. Of the F7 and mirages, I would assume mirages will remain because of their range and overall capability but it might depend on their serviceability. We know what PAF plans to do but a lot of their plans are hostage to financial resources.
Not really, operational availability on the overall fleet is around 80%. PAF pilot to plane ration is about 2:1 which compares very favourably to most countries
I’m not sure about this 2:1 ratio. Most AFs around the world have a 1-1.5:1 ratios. Imagine the stress on the fleet and the impact on pilot training hours with higher pilot:fighter ratio unless an AF makes up for training hours in simulators, which is obviously not as good as the real thing.
As for the types in PAF, one can put it down to resource crunch plus their worry of western sanctions. If they had as much cash as some other AFs, they would only have 2 fighter types. Beyond 2020, they would still have upgraded mirages (at least some). Even with the introduction of a more advanced Chinese version such as J31, they would still be operating JF-17 and F-16.
Snippets from PAF ACM interview in this months AFM
3rd JF-17 Sqd fully operational at CCS which is a verson of NATO TLC and USAF Fighter Weapons School
Block II Thunders now rolling off production line
Two seater JF-17 to fly next year, to be used as LIFT
JF-17 Block III to have AESA and brand new undisclosed weapons.
JF-17s have been on air defence alert with SD-10A for “last few years”
Combination of Sniper ATP and DB100 Recce pod on F-16s and C-130s with SAFIR pods revolutionised PAF ISR capabilities
Mirage and F-7 pilots now transitioning to F-16/JF-17s after just 200 hours as opposed to 400 hours prior
Most of this info is well known, but it should put to rest the controversy about operational status of BVRAAM on block 1 Thunders. Whilst it was logical to assume that it was operational (why would PAF have hundreds of these missiles in its inventory if it wasn’t operational) and many had confirmed this (off record) but logic was not sufficient in some quarters. At least we know it now.
Actually it comes from this link:
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150303000101&cid=1101
But once for all and once again !!! All reports coming from “wantchinatimes” can be – they actually have to be – ignored immediately !!!
That would be as if another obscure source would tell that the RuAF will buy Chinese J-20 and scrap the T50 program.
Deino
Thank Deino. I didn’t know about the credibility of this source, but in any case M88 story made no sense when one considers the thrust, costs, engine dimensions and associated airframe modifications, political factors and recent news Pakistan purchasing RD93 directly from Russia etc.
The story about M88-2 makes no sense. Probably poor editing or planted.
Interesting, thanks for the details Vikas. Any I indication if this will be accompanied by a Denel HMS?
More than likely!
PAF is acutely aware of resource crunch and they will be spending their limited resources wisely. Recent developments in the region have given them some breathing space but getting a 5th gen WVRAAM remains a top priority. It will happen in near-mid future.
Any thoughts on what the HMC and HOBS missile combo will be for future Blocks with the PAF? On previous occasions, it has been mentioned that a Chinese combo is being developed, most likely based on the PL-10? However, at the most recent Zuhai, the PAF stated other options may be considered, maybe the A-Darter? Given that the Saudis were considering the JF-17 equipped with the EJ200 (providing commonality with their Tiffies I assume), it appears the JF-17 is open to a number of customer specific options, wallet permitting of course.
A decision in principle was made a while back to go for A-Darter. MAR-1 & MAA-1A (may be followed by the B version as well) were the initial steps.
PAF aqquires 13 F-16 MLUs from Jordan, activating a third MLU sqd next month.
I think these are the ADF version (block 15 OCU) and have only been through the structural and engine upgrade to 220E but not the avionics upgrade. IIRC, these do have the ability to use AMRAAM and maverick, not sure if AMRAAM requires some software upgrade. This purchase makes sence considering the recent rumours of possible further AMRAAM deliveries to PAF.
At the end all these L1 and LCC etc are for peace time to justify buy something. As soon as shooting starts, everything is obsolete. IAF know what they need and MoD/FM know what we can afford.
After certain threshold during peace time, it does not matter what IAF want.
After certain threshold during war time, it does not matter what MoD/FM can afford.And thank God, it is peace time for India (unless something is going on behind scenes).
So right.
A little change in the status quo, a little build up on the border or easing of tensions there can change so much for one side or the othe. Peace is never as profitable to those with a stake in the MIC.
The Saudis operated around 100 F-5s at some point, and although these were largely replaced by the Typhoon, could the Saudis be considering operating a more diversified fleet, including a more “lightweight” and cheaper (to buy and to operate) fighter, but one that includes a potent mix of weapons, including BVR, stand-off and ASM/AShM missiles? And more importantly, an entire weapons package that doesn’t come with any political strings attached, particularly in light of the recent souring of relations with the US over the Middle East and Syria?
Considering the amount of money they have spent on their AF which is equipped with all western machines, I don’t think Saudis r too bothered about any political strings as long as they maintain the ability to churn out the oil at their current rate (that’s one big string they have). As for the above requirements, they could have opted for gripen, with political strings of course. But JF-17 also comes with a Russian engine and Saudi-Russia ties aren’t that great at the moment. A lot of things are currently in motion, so at least for the time being, this whole saudi interest in JF-17 is nothing more than a potential sweetner.
Maybe the idea is to buy some for a friend. Isn’t the latest Egyptian government (1) friendly to Saudi Arabia & (2) broke?
Unlikely. Egyptians would have likely talked to China and/or pak. I can’t imagine China being too averse to extending a credit line. The recent high profile visits between saudis and pak indicate warming of relations after several dormant years during president Zardari’s era who IIRC visited China and Iran a lot more frequently than SA. Wikileaks revelations vis-a-vis king Abdullah-president Zardari didn’t help either. So I’d still consider it a carrot.
Unlikely I would say. They have advanced F-15Es and Typhoons. Also have very advanced missiles. JF-17 can offer them no real improvment.
The only reason they would buy it is to send a message to the US/Europe, and maybe to help increase ties with China. Although they has been much intense defence diplomacy between Pakistan and Saudia recently
Spot on.
I would only add that the current saudi-iranian struggle for dominance is also an important factor here.
For the time being, think of it as a saudi carrot for Pakistan. Depending on how geostrategic situation evolves, Saudis can afford to buy a couple of squadrons without thinking about it too much.