Abhi, in the light of your own statement-as pointed out by Farooq-what do you say now? L-15 was only an in-development machine-wasnt it? May be it was another exception like YF-16? May be china pulled some weight? Or could it be that demos & PTs can fly in such airshows.

But lets look at it from another pov. Manufacturers spend millions to bring these machines to such shows. Both pak/china want their little fighter to be a succes on the market….see next post

Abhi, the problem is that you never provide as ‘clear’ an evidence for your ‘clear’ indications, and its ‘clear’ for almost everyone to see how you use your strange ‘assumptions’ to arrive at equally strange ‘conclusions’.

Ok. Lets assume you are right. JF-17 was not allowed to perform because it did not have a so called a ‘certificate’ of some sort. So what ‘ceritificate’ is it exactly that you speak of? Air worthiness? Aerobatics? Insurance? IOC? FOC? What? And more importantly, on what basis can you deny other plausible explanations that have been offered? Do you have any evidence? Any whatsoever? Or is it mere whims?

Now L-15. A prototype, with only a few hundred hours under its belt, was allowed to participate in an airshow once it demonstrated its flight safety in those 20 flights. Dreamliner was allowed to fly over a city of a few hundred thousand (this very evening) with only 1050 flying hours under its belt (still couple of years from certification). In comparison, JF-17 is already in operational squadron service with 3000 or so hours. We have seen it doing aerobatics in China and Pakistan, have seen it dropping bombs and so on. What makes you think that its manufacturers could not have arranged any ‘so called’ required mandatory flights for whatever certification it is that you speak of? And let me ask you this as well. How do the organisers of farnborough work? Do they simply publicise anyone on their website as flying, and ask for certificates later? Are they that trusting? Something tells me project management does not work quite the same way in UK.

Abhi dear, do think about your own logic before you put it down. When we talk about the safety, we usually mean the machine and not the skill of pilot. If LCA, still years away from certification, was allowed to fly in Aero India 2007 or so (without your so called certification), then one could be forced to conclude that GoI does not care about the safety of those attending that airshow, and so on. On one hand, you keep bragging about how stupid the IAF is to not show more committment to the unproven (still no certificate) LCA, i.e. no order of 300, in comparison with saftey-proven MMRCA designs. One simply cant twist his/her logic to suit his/her own needs. People notice these big flaws (sorry for being OT).

ps. tell your compatriots at BRF that they need to do a bit more research before they turn thunder into bandaar. Fo example, PAF air chief has publicly spoken of PAF’s requirement of up to 250 machines, with an agreement for 150 already signed. First PAF pilot to fly the machine was in April 2004 (not 2006) and it was PT-03 not 04. Since 2007, there is in existence as TF&E school in Pakistan (for JF-17). And finally JF-17 has had a radar from the very first SBP machine (since many dont know whether it has a radar or not, though its in operational squadron service).

pps. I will try to get this ‘certificate’ answer for you over the weekend.:)

^Thank u Arthur.:-) But wait for the response yet. In every likelihood the logic will blow your mind.

Kramer, dont tell me you bought into Abhi’s certification talk. We all know that even demo machines have flown in such airshows. And unless im mistaken they only require air worthiness certification. This machine is allowed to fly over british landscape, cities etc. What does that say? So let Abhi believe in what he wishes.

Abhi, unless im mistaken even ‘demonstrator’ fly in airshows-well before their service entries. As for JF-17, well it has already flown over 500 sorties in operational squadron service, and the 2nd squadron might stand up by the end of the year.

ps. someone-above-raised a question about the possibility of the 2nd squadron by the year. If i remember correctly, Alan Warnes was quoting a PAC official, ane its not a given but only probable. We can assume that barring anything drastic 2nd sq would come online next year if not this year.

pps. on another note, having come across it in some places, please allow me to clarify one thing. To the best of my knowledge, all JF-17 in operational service so far are equipped with a chinese RADAR.

Well if Russians field PAK-FA in 2018 or so, and field an equivalent around 2025, it would show how significantly the chinese have narrowed the gap. And we all know it takes time.