Impressive achievement!

Anti-satellite weapon shot down a LEO Satelite – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v6eRj7Hl0s

And so important that the Indian PM decided to announce it in a nationally televised address (only two weeks before elections). I remember how a similar achievement by China (around 12 years ago) was ridiculed by great armchair generals on BRF. But people do tend to have short memory spans.

Over the last week or so, we saw many a poster talking about nuclear war in a callous manner. Over the years, I have noted many of our Indian friends claiming that in a full blown nuclear exchange, Pakistan would cease to exist, but India, as a big country, will be able to sustain it better. Here is an article (for such armchair generals) analysing the effects of a “light” nuclear war between India and pakistan. I hope our armchair generals and paid guests on TV shows would remember this when talking about a nuclear war in casual manner.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu…e-planet-46532
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1097864/world-war-3-india-shoots-down-pakistan-drone-latest-rajasthan-border

Obviously such claims are not easy to be verified. I imagine, the drone crashed in Pakistani territory, so they are very unlikely to confirm, but we hope to see some evidence from the claimant.

One of the perils of modern historical writing is its staunch reliance on objective evidence, even in cases where it is not applicable. For example material evidence and written evidence cover only a tiny bit of what actually went on in the past. So you are left comparing accounts and relying on what is consistent as a more plausible explanation.

We have accounts from both sides that more than one jet went down. And there is no material evidence apart from the wreckage of the MiG. Now either India or Pakistan is lying about a jet and its pilots. If you want objective analysis then you need to do two things.

1. Treat the strikes on 26th and the engagement on 27th as related yet different events. Now IAF narrative about strikes flies in the face of material evidence gathered so far. So in objective analysis you needn’t believe their accounts and I doubt neutrals will unless IAF releases more footage/images.

2. But on the evens about 27th Indian version of events is more plausible, chiefly because of the following reasons.

a. Indian narrative had been consistent throughout. It said it lost a plane and a pilot (who was captured) and it shot down an F-16. You do not see a change in that narrative to date.

b. Now Pakistan claimed that * It has shot down to Indian jets. * It had two Indian Pilots * F 16 was not used. All three of which were proven to be false.

c. So far India gave the only material evidence it had the AMRAAM C-5 wreckage.

Now this is more like it. 🙂
i think both sides have their own reason to declare victory, and so be it. We may or may not get more evidence in time to come, but I hope they have stepped away from the brink, and sane minds would prevail henceforth.

7 in 2019, it’s Sputnik tho, so..

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201903081073065739-indian-air-force-warplanes-accident/

28 Jan Jaguar
1 Feb M2K-5
4 Feb Dhruv (IA)
12 Feb Mig-27
19 Feb 2xHawk
27 Feb Mig-21
27 Feb Mil-17
8 Mar Mig-21

I may have got some dates wrong, but these are the ones i recall from this thread.

Yes sir! Back to aviation. 🙂

An IAF Mig-21 crashed in Rajasthan. Good news is that pilot ejected.

Completely incorrect… As an outside observer, I can tell you that the Indian Gov and Media has not established itself as some paragon of truth vis a vis the Pakistani Gov and narrative:

1. Multiple outside analysis (not just “Western”) call into question the Indian Gov and Media’s statements about the efficacy and target of the strike- particularly compelling is the Western Intel officer quoted as saying that was common knowledge the JeM training camp had been moved. Considering the Pakistan denies JeM training camps in their country, it is hard to argue that is some “Pro-Pakistani” narrative.

2. The “hero of the hour” narrative on Varthaman started before he was even exchanged. When he was exchanged, his statement subsequently buried in the Indian media was “I was trying to lock onto a target” when his aircraft crossed the LoC and was shot down. Conveniently, his claim has been “confirmed” by the IAF based on what? He certainly didn’t say it.

3. The Indian government and Pakistani government have spread false information. Pakistan has to explain the denial of F-16 involvement (most likely they were trying to avoid US scrutiny), but it’s still a falsehood. India has explain why certain ministers were claiming “hundreds killed”, why the media parroted false strike claims.

Both sides have aircraft shootdown claims that have not a shred of evidence: India claiming an F-16, and Pakistan claiming a “2nd Indian aircraft”, repeated as an Su-30.
And no, the IAF does not have some credibility advantage over the PAF when it comes to making claims without any physical proof, audio, even a coherent narrative of the shootdown.

(I would have certainly believed the Indian Gov and IAF was more credible prior to this event, that presumption of plausibility has been torn down by the successive falsehoods spread by the Indian Gov and media).

Bottom line:
India did send a message that they are willing to strike within Pakistan, irregardless of what actual strike hit.
The subsequent counter led to one confirmed MiG-21 lost. Pakistan likely shot AMRAAM from F-16’s at targets in India.
Both India and Pakistan have uncorroborated kill claims.
The media was weaponized by both countries, both for international purposes, and internal consumption (with the added twist of being used against opposition parties in India facing upcoming elections).

There is no longer any need for any evidence. I was just reading an Indian account of PAF strikes in an Indian media outlet. I don’t have the article opened, but IIRC, PAF F-16 (10) took off from 3 different bases, merged into a single formation, got into Indian airspace, 9 of these were forced to turn back, one managed to get through, attacked 3 targets, an MKI and a Bison boxed it in, with Bison in front and MKI behind it, and so on. It was so detailed that the author had actually stated the names of manouevers used by different pilot. And everything was over within a few minutes (from the first PAF fighter taking off till the shooting down). It was actually disheartening to read such BS, but the author probably knows that no one would actually question this BS in current situation, so why not. And why not when the readers have become intellectually incapacitated, and they only read what makes them feel better.

None of this is likely to change anytime soon. The best I hope for is that this filth and lies will stick to such journalists, and more credible journalists remember such names when it comes to citing the work of liars and fabricators. As for our armchair air marshals, one can only pray. I’m still waiting for the proof of various claims that were made prior to the start of the first hostility, e.g. PAF would move all its assets to Western borders with the start of hostilities. While these armchair air marshals claim to have upper moral ground, none of them has the decency to admit they were wrong. Or perhaps their previous analysis were pre-conditioned, i.e. IAF must have Rafale for their predictions to come true. Afterall, Indian PM did alluded to this by saying (to the effect), if we had Rafale, none of ours would have gone down and none of theirs would have been saved.

Tut tut…

Talking about nuclear war in such casual terms. No wonder, western nations seem to have almost given up on these two countries. Perhaps the new thinking is let the two cousins batter each other out, and those remaining can be made to sit on a table, with a new plan imposed on them. Whether that takes the shape of a united India or not, will depend on how many survive in this jungle.