vikasrehmanA previous Defence Minister has also done this, when he wanted to convince the public that the MiG-21 was safe to fly in. that was George Fernandes. BTW, the President is the Supreme Commander of the Indian Armed Forces, even if its only a title. It is she who wanted to fly, and her reasoning was she wanted to do it to “inspire” women. whatever, she’s hardly much to talk about, at least when compared to the previous President Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam.
and the IAF has done that other thing you suggested as well. Mission Udaan was what it was called and it was shown in India on Nat Geo. the winner is now in the US, getting a PPL.
Now, this makes a lot more sense, i.e. to inspire women.
vikasrehmanif the President wants to take a flight on board a fighter, then how on earth can the IAF say no ? it gets some media attention, but I don’t think it inspires anyone..I can’t believe that seeing old people (no disrespect to the elderly meant) in g-suits flying for publicity will inspire the younger gen join the IAF..
What about if its PM next?
And then the DM, FM, other Ms?
Can the IAF say no?
And are you sure if the president who actually asked for this in the first place, and that it wasn’t the IAF who approached her.
Just like yourself, Im also trying to understand the real value of something like this? In my opinion, asking a TV channel to organise a well publicised competition where the winner gets to spend a few days with IAF or gets a ride in MKI would probably be much better to achieve the goal, i.e. publicity/inspiration.
vikasrehmanpublicity and ceremonial purposes.
Publicity for whom? IAF? And is this the best way to go about it?
vikasrehmanThat’s debatable. Unless those 4th and 4.5 gen aircraft have suddenly figured out how to out manuever a HOBS missile? Yeah, didn’t think so. In the meantime they’ll pretty much be at it’s mercy BVR.
And what about if that 4/4.5 gen plane is also equipped with a very effective 5th gen HOBS missile? What are the chances of F-35 outmanuevering that? As you implied, F-35’s key advantage would lie in its BVR offence. Most 4/4.5 gen machines should be finished off (theoretically speaking of course) before they could even get into the visual arena.
vikasrehmanIt depends on where you draw the boundaries of “the region”. The USA has sold AIM-9X to Saudi Arabia & Singapore, & the Saudis have also bought IRIS-T.
South Asia-read India/Pakistan specifically.
vikasrehmanAccording to Janes (23 Nov 2009), Ukraine is considering acquiring the Chinese L-15 advanced jet trainer, “but it must first enter service with the Chinese Air Force”.
vikasrehmanHow did that follow – what I mean is only if there is a substantially more advanced AIM-9X follow on inducted or confirmed to be in the works, by the USAF would it be released to the PAF. Otherwise it may remain out of bounds.
The Block 2 doesnt change/advance the seeker AFAIK but adds more s/w capability, datalink etc so they might not give it even then.
Via the SD-10 the PRC has demonstrated a basic grasp of ARH, so an earlier AIM-120C5 is not such technology leak/ proliferation risk as giving access to an IIR equipped AIM-9X. Till date the PRC has no IIR equipped missile. The US has blocked Israeli exports to the PRC (Python 5 is NA) and there is an European Arms embargo (and IRIS-T, ASRAAM are not dual use like helicopters to skim past).
I know US is wary of tech leaks to China through PAF, but I dont think this is their primary or main concern. I mean if it was to be the case, does this mean that chinese have a grasp of everything else that has come along the whole F-16 package including the avionics in the fighter itself?
Another likely explanation for not selling AIM-9X to PAF is that AIM-9X has no equivalent in the region, and US did not want to be seen as someone introducing such a tech in the region, especially through Pakistan, especially when Bush regime was trying to develop a strategic partnership with India. Sure, if an American fighter is selcted, it would definitely form the part of MMRCA package, and then US would not have any logical reason (if Pak/US relation stay on course) not to sell it to Pakistan as well. I know India uses R-73 (and may be Python 4?), but I dont think either of them is as capable as AIM-9X. As for AIM-9M-8/9 and R-73, I tried to google, but there is a lot of contradicting info. out there, especially in terms of their OBS limits. Do you have anything more specific on the capabilities of the two?
As for the chinese capabilities in this regard, they have been working on a new generation missile (using IIR seeker) for sometime. According to Huitong’s site (as cited above), the development started in 2005, and first ground launched tests were performed in 2008. However, I remember a report in AFM back in 2002 (I think it covered Zhihai Airshow) stating that China is already working on such a missile. And once again its only a matter of time before they are able to place their own equivalent.
vikasrehmanI guess its not just capability but technology – as you said the AIM-9X is newer, its actually the best the US has right now, so they might be wary of exporting it to Pak (PRC factor).
In contrast, while they are sending across the AIM-120 C5 to Pak, they have the C7 for themselves, and in the next few years to be followed by the AMRAAM D, which is substantially more advanced than the C7.
There you go. As I said, its only a question of time before AIM-9X becomes available.
vikasrehmanI think the AAMs are ordered separately. PAF has like 500+ AMRAAMS on order, does anyone know about Sidewinders or other SRAAMS
They ordered 200 AIM-9M-8/9. The number does sound low, but PAF already has quite a few AIM-9s in stock. Considering all their new and MLU machines would have JHCMS, there might be plans to upgrade some of their older models to the new standards. As Teer pointed out earlier that AIM-9M-8/9 is unable to exploit the capabilities of a HMD to the full extent, a parallel theroy is that its only a question of time before US would authorise the sale of AIM-9X to PAF, i.e. AIM-120-C5 could be considered a lot more offensive than AIM-9X, though the latter is based on newer tech.
vikasrehmanIn that vein, do you have anything on whether the PAF is looking beyond the SPADA for its AD needs, specifically to any longer range SAM?
I am kind of surprised they havent picked up on either the KS-1A or the HQ-9, since both seem to be readily available. And the former surely does not have any Russian tech in it either.
Yes. We have seen quite a bit (over the years) about Pakistan discussing to purchase FT-2000/HQ-9, though no much details are available out there in the public.
vikasrehmanWhy is Indian navy even interested in Rafale or SH? They already have Mig-29K, and if Imnot wrong there is option for further. From what I understand navy always seemed more interested in LCA than AF, and that naval LCA is only around the corner. So why a third type? How many carriers is IN aiming for (lets say) over the next 10 years, and how many naval forces around the world deploy three different types from their carrier. On another note, Mig-29K would stay there for at least 2-3 decades. Don’t tell me its going be between LCA and another fighter now?
vikasrehmanCome on people. Lets get back to the topic.
vikasrehmanFirst 50 batch are definitely KLJ-7 Chinese radar as stated in previous report.
BVRAAM is definitely SD-10 or PL-11. No way Chinese will release the radar source code of the radar to be integrated with other foreign missile.
So the No 111 which is shown here shall have the KLJ-7 intergrated inside.
MICA is considered for the next batch after the 50s. So far, no concrete news for the radar. All is speculating at the moment.
PL-11 was offered as FD-60 years back, but PAF was not interested. It would be SD-10/A for the first bacth. Next bacth would be SD-10/chinese radar or RC-400/MICA.
vikasrehmanIf “putting all your eggs end in the same basket” was a major problem with Russia at political and military level then you wouldn’t have seen so many projects and joint development in the pipeline.
Right now Russia is thinking about itself (and not India’s defense needs) when it comes to Admiral Gorshkov, in spite of all those JVs and projects. A few years back, when Russia was ‘generally quoted’ to meet 70% of Indian armed forces needs, weren’t there any issues about Russia failing to supply even the spare parts for Mig-21s? Didn’t India want to go the Israeli route for Mig-21 upgrade but agreed to Bison upgrade under Russian pressure? What would happen if Russia was meeting 70-80% of IAF requirement, and the two developed some major difference, like over price?
The need of the hour is to rationalise the fleet in the circus of many types that IAF operates , adding a new type wont give IAF any great permanent or a quantum leap but will add to the logistics and type burden.
If IAF/IN can operate a common baseline variant then it is a big cost saving in terms of end to end fleet wide capability and logistics/weapons rationalization.
From an operational pov, you cannot deny this. And this is why I said sure right at the start of my earlier post.
I dont see Russia and India strategic conflict , on the contrary its a convergence of strategic interest which is a driving factor for eg if Russia through its marketing and support muscle can position Tejas as a Mig-21/23/27 replacement globally and can integrate engine/weapons to the fighter then its a big space of ~ 3000 fighter market which is big money for India and Russia , if not you will see the low capability but cheaper Chinese FC-1 fighter replacing the Mig-21/27/23 in big percentage.
Leaving LCA/FC-1 out of the equation, over the years India has increasingly become closer to US, while Russia and China have developed a cosy relation. Over the recent years, Russia and US have gone through some major rifts. I think it was back in 2007, when a high level Russia defence official (i think it was their deputy defence minister on a visit to India?) said to the effect that if India can find new markets-read to get weapons from-Russia can also find new markets-read to sell weapons. And surely we did see the re-export of RD-93 to Pakistan soon after that. Point is that if above-mentioned trends continue, how sure are you about India and Russia (the two rising powers) not developing a strategic difference over some issue in the future?
vikasrehmanYep , Mig-35 purchase will be a good way to move forward with overall Fleet and logistics rationalisation with a cost effective fighter.
Sure. But what about India’s (as in the country) long term (geostrategic-political) interests? In the long run then, IAF would be composed of a few squadrons of LCA (20-30% making the lo end) and everything else of Russian origin (70-80% Mig-35, MKI, FGFA). Wouldn’t you term this as ‘putting all your eggs end in the same basket’? India is a growing power and so is Russia. Could anyone say that their interest would always be the same…Im talking about next 20-30 years here?
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