The Syrians, like the Israeli air raid on Ayn Shahab (Syria) back in 2003, chose to play the innocent card. They simply announced that Israel had conducted an airstrike, dropped bombs and had violated their airspace. Syria simply looked for the sympathy vote and complained to the international community and U.N.

What evidence could they hide? How are you going to hide the fact that a large structure near a river bank is no longer there?

The theory is that the Syrians built this facility and chose not to put air defences around it. The reason being that they didn’t want to draw attention to it. The positioning of air defences around a structure is going to get the attention of Israeli and other intelligence services, either visually or electronically. For air defences to spring up and radiate in a new location is going to bring it to the attention of interested intelligence services. It appears that the Syrians didn’t do this or put up in-depth fence layers in order not to draw immediate attention to the facility.

The Israeli’s and the U.S. could have gone down the IAEA route and brought it to their attention. This possibly would have brought pressure on the Syrians to open up the facility for IAEA inspection. That drawn out process could also have allowed the Syrians to finish the structure and also deploy substantial air defences around it as well as denying IAEA access.

The Israelis, it appears, chose the right time to cripple the project. The Israelis released footage of the Iraqi reactor strike and the Ayn Shahab strike. Maybe in time they will also release footage of the Syrian strike?

There is a big diffrence between a strike on a training camp and a nuclear facility. Whereas its understandable why Israelis decide to cripple the project istead of taking IAEA route, please tell us if they went to IAEA even afterwards? Dont you think It was a golden chance for them to prove that Syria (just like Iran) is pursuing nuclear weapons and is a threat to their existence? But No. Instead, they decided to sit down with them (along other countries) and talk to them. Over recent weeks, American pressure on Syrians has somewhat eased, and it seems rather strange to have happened so soon after destruction of nuclear facility in Syria. Whereas its understandable that Syrians could not hide the destruction of a structure, how about readioactivity? Wouldn’t that be sufficient enough to prove that its was a nuclear facility indeed? Has it been proven??? Dont tell me it was a building built for nuclear material restoration but there was no material there at the time of attack.

Israel is not trying to do anything ‘to convince the world of the Iranian threat’ so stop trying to invent a conspiracy becouse there is not one. Just another case of you making yourself look ridiculous and lying.

What was Israeli reaction to recent NIE on Iranian nuclear programme?

Of course Israel would have known what they were attacking, just another stupid comment from you.

It just strikes me as rather odd that Israelis strike a nuclear facility in Syria, and then let Syrians have time to cover the evidence. I mean Israel is the same country which was beating drums about Saddam’s WMDs, has strong links with so many hard-core neocons, and has been threatning Iran with military action over its nuclear programme.

How can you not understand something so simple as the Turkey issue, sure they may have dissaproved of their airspace being violated but that would certainly be outweighed by keeping Syria fee of nuclear weapons, stop talking about this issue unless you can actually show that Turkey was genuinely angry about it.

Prove that it was a nulcear facility indeed.

The fact that you use the word bragging just shows how foolish you are, what do the Syrians have to brag about? There aispace was penetrated by their mortal enemy who was then able to escape safely without any losses, hardly worthy of a medal is it?

Well it was Syrians who said “The Israeli enemy aircraft infiltrated into the Arab Syrian territory through the northern border, coming from the Mediterranean heading toward the eastern region, breaking the sound barrier,”. In comparison, Israelis simply kept their mouths shut after a successful strike on a nuclear facility???

It does not make perfect sense to you becouse you are clearly not very bright. The Syrians would have had no option but to talk, the dropping of the fuel tanks and the observations by its own citizens gave them no choice.

Last time i checked, Syria was no democracy. I can only assume it wouldn’t be all that difficult for govt to suppress such news had it not wanted it to be published. With regard to dropping the tanks, i thought that happened over Turkish lands???

With regard to my brightness, i may not be so. But one thing i have in abundance is my manners for a civilised discussion:)

Again I advise you to stop posting as you have nothing to say and just continue to embarrass yourself with your own ignorance.

With all due respect, i choose not to heed this advice.:)

Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over again. The fact is that you are completely unable to provide any alternative to the scenario put forward and you have revealed yourself to be highly uninformed much to your own embarrassment.

Come on sealordlawrence, you should be proud that i am paying close attention to your alternatives:) . Although your whole theroy-to which you refer to as highly viable scenario- is based on mere speculations/suggestions put together, have i anywehere referred to it as ‘you making claims’? At the end of the day, it’s a theory…isn’t it? And if so, i guess i can ask all the questions i want…till it become an established claim.:)

I never said that the Turkish government was involved, simply that what happened was probably in their interest so they have only made a token protest, nothing serious.

OK…so it was in Turkish interest??? The article suggesting Turkish military intelligence’s involvement in this whole thing quite clrealy implies that they did so without Turkish Establishment’s prior knowlege, i.e. sending message. I would assume Turkish govt would have taken this as a very serious threat to the whole establishment, and would have been genuinely upset with the Israeli govt for their involvement with Turkish military without Turkish establishment’s prior knowledge.

Syria was the first side to talk about this, again Israel has said nothing. They had to change their initial story after the release of satellite images by independent sources showing that something had been bombed.

Over the years we have heard a lot about Syrian involvement in uncoventional weapons’ programmes, although mainly biological weapons and not as much about nuclear stuff. Therefore, i find it quite strange that it was Syrians who came out with the whole story bragging about their AD system when their nuclear facility had just been bombed. This was followed by Turkish, and Israelis only reacted after days. Just imagine Syrian nuclear facility being bombed, and its Syrians making noises (attracting world’s attention) yet Israelis stay quite…somehow it does not make perfect sense. Later reports suggested that Syria had covered the evidence since the initial bombing. May be its just me, but why did Syrians have to open their big mouths so soon when they could have used that time to hide the evidence in the first place, and why did Israelis allowed them so much time to do so?

Why would Israel not attack a Syrian Nuclear facility, they have attacked an Iraqi one. You actually name a reason in your post why they have not attacked Iran, that country is years from a Nuclear weapon and is currently being actively pursued by the largest part of the international community to not go down that route.

Israel is trying in its earnest to convince the rest of the world that Iran is a much bigger threat to their existence as well as international peace than ROW appears to believe. They attacked a Syrian nuclear facility, of which no one else seems to have had any knoweldge of (???). Just imagine the international hoo haa and pressure on Syria. Israeli intelligence’s reputation would have had a massive boost if this was proven to be a nuclear facility. Yet Israel decided to give Syria so much time to cover evidence. Why? Did Israelis even know what were they attacking when they struck???

It all makes sense, Israel saw a potential threat and attacked it……….come up with a more plausible alternative or live with it, and please stop asking the same questions over and over again, especially when all the answers are easily available either in this thread or via a very quick google search.

Its your theory sealordlawrence. And whether they are simple or naive, i’ll take the liberty and ask you the questions.:)

lol, you have not read any of the posted article and you have little idea what you are talking about. Turkey was barely upset at all, other than the pathetic ‘official protest’ they have done nothing about the Israeli flight so they obviously were not that upset.

Add to that the article posted on the first page of this thread suggesting the involvement of Turkish intelligence in the raid and it further suggests the absurdity of the idea that Turkey was massively upset by this.

What are you trying to say???
Are you trying to say that Turkish govt was somehow involved in this whole thing…and hence ‘barely upset’?

Read the articles, nuclear facility, not full nuclear program, why not put it outside AD coverage, if an attack is not expected then why bother? Furthermore it is likely that the intention was to keep it away from the Syrian public and if a large water source was required then near a river is also sensible.

How did this whole news come out? Was it from syrian sources or Israeli or elsewhere?

In fact I seriously suggest that you read the first posts in this thread, even the Syrians say the Israelis entered their northern border, looks like no holes have been poked in anything. Oh yeah and the Israeli establishment is not making anything out of this, they have said nothing.

I find that rather strange. Iraq had absolutely nothing and Israeli establishment turned them into a massive threat. Iran is years away from becoming a nuclear power (according to recent intelligence reports), and israelis are not having any of that. And there is syria with a nuclear facility established with the help of NK, destroyed by Israelis and Israelis are saying nothing??? :confused:

Sorry sunshine, but unless you can provide a viable alternative you do not have a leg to stand on. The fact of the matter is that I have provided a highly viable scenario which you are completely unable to refute in any way other than making absurd demands for ‘irrefutable’ evidence.

Ball is in your court, post something discrediting or stop posting.

When one reads simple speculation as CLAIMS and asks for back up…highly likely under the influence of something quite narcotic on xmas eve:) …then he/she should be willing to provide irrefutable evidence to support a highly viable scenario…SUNSHINE;)

If the Israelis destroyed a Syrian nuclear facility then of course it was worth it. Other than the official protest what else has Turkey done in response……nothing. So yeah it seems to have been worth it.

Then show me the evidence that it was a nuclear facility.

Most airforces operate only 2 fighters of 2 different types, in sharp contrast to the highly inaccurate claim made by Indian Parliament’s Standing Committee report on Defence that and I quote, “..most airforces like to operate light, medium and heavy class of fighters….”

The USAF operates only 2 fighter types and the USN, only 1 type. The same is the case of UK, France, Russia Australia and even China, which is often sought to be emulated in most respects (it operates Su-30 derivatives and J-10 only other than older MiGs and derivatives).
Thus, IAF can also operate just 2 primary fighter types i.e. Su-30 and Tejas with older Mirages and MiGs, and the Indian Navy may operate the MiG-29 K and Tejas. This is similar to the US model.**

Whereas most of the RoW is indeed trying to reduce fighter types, not the IAF. How could IAF operate only two types, when PAK-FA is out there and so is MMRCA? That makes it 4. What about MCA?

your awareness needs to be updated then. they have literally no sam squadrons to speak of, bar obsolete hq-2s. the rbs-70, anti-aircraft AA and manpads are next to useless against fast movers at medium alt, which retain the initiative of how to attack.

they are reportedly acquiring the spada 2000, but how many units and even that is a medium sam. being sarh, it too is vulnerable to a kh-31 counterstrike. the bamse was also spoken of for pak, but that seems to have died a slow death.

imo, this is the biggest issue for pak. if india launches a coordinated strike forcing the aew out of theater, coupling it with jags + armats, or sukhois with kh-31s or bisons with kh-25s – a hole can be torn into paks air defence network. which will then be exploited by low level strikers, provided the anti-aew ops continue.

All i would say here is that Pak AD is to consist of short/med/long range systems in near future. They already have certain elements in place and other are coming in steadily. Spada is only a small part of the whole thing:)

that, and the fact that a growing indian economy will see the technology edge + numbers on the indian side. the erieye will help in giving them some amount of look see into indian territory, but i doubt it will be operated too close to the border, and being a smaller platform, its range/ performance are going to have limitations.

No doubt about this. But PN is to operate its own system, and PAF’s collaboration with chinese would also bear fruit over next few years (???). Besides, every single PAF fighter would be equipped with BVRAAM/HMD capability by year 2015. As for PAF Mirages, yes they were equipped with BVR…it has been sometime now.:)

Yes most of your posts are.

May be so. But i think its better if we just end this whole thing here. Someone who is reading ‘Are old syrian systems still effective against newer ECM capabilities of Israeli systems?’ and ‘i think its ‘quite reasonable‘ to ‘assume’ that those fighters might have been in some sort of trouble if they did so (in Turkey) during an aggressive operation (in Syria)’-plain English-as CLAIMS and wants evidence, probably needs to re-read them after xmas…with a clear mind.

Anyway have a very merry xmas and happy new year.:)