vikasrehmanRight now, when both fighters are without HMS, a TVC equipped Raptor has an edge over the EF imo.
What if both of them are equipped with HMS/D and equally good missile?
vikasrehmanIf i’m not mistaken, when 2 eurofighters were sent to the USA to fly against Raptors they came on top in WVR, due to there sheer agility, I have read this from many sources. But in BVR, as expected, it was the lesser of the two. Except, lol, when it tracked a raptor 80 miles away.
While i dont have a reason to question that an EF armed with similar weapons could be an equaliser to raptor in WVR (just like most other agile fighters), tracking a raptor from 80 miles is somewhat questionable; either Raptor must have a larger RCS than previously claimed or EF might have an extraordinarlity powerful radar.
vikasrehmanChina has made some flying rocket like comments in not so recent past regarding AP, Kalaikunda has been going through a HUGE overhaul to make it a base where exercises will be held, diversifying MKI’s makes sense in that scenario any sort of ties not-withstanding.
Why in the world would the IAF count upon some “diplomatic” ties and overlook how badly their force structure is slipping in the east with MiG-21s against a Flanker equipped PLAAF?
Surely, they’d deploy and keep their powder dry.
It makes all the sense in the world to base their MKI at eastern front or a hugely overhauled based, i dont doubt that for a second. But i still fail to understand the reasoning behind such blunt comments vis-a-vis China especially when the ties between the two countries have been warming, there is absolutely zero chance of any chinese misadventure in the region, and when India needs China’s goodwill to get the nuclear deal (im sure you’d agree that the deal is of huge importance to India) through NSG.
PS. Its not IAF’s job to look upon any diplomatic ties. But correct me if im wrong…all IAF’s major decisions have to be ratified by GOI, which im sure does pay some attention to such diplomatic ties.
vikasrehmanIndia is buying 230 MKI’s, it has to place them somewhere. All IAf needs is 4-5 squardons of MKI in the western and south western command. Frankly 2 squardons each at tezpur and hasimara would be useful. The china card is just the journalists interpretation. I suppose the rest would go to the central command around UP.
Broncho, Inverted commas in that article imply direct quotes and not mere journalistic interpretation. Unless of course AVM has been misquoted completely as happens in media, my questions still stand.
vikasrehmanIndia likely to buy more than 126 jet fighters
Is this because IAF still feels that LCA’s induction might be further delayed?
China in mind, India to boost eastern air power
“The perception of east India has changed and our defences are at their peak to thwart any misadventure now, especially after what happened in 1962,” Air Marshal P.K. Barbora told Reuters, referring to India’s border war with China.But apparently sensitive to the recent warmth in ties between the Asian giants, Barbora added that “we are not
Now that seems a lot more than strange.
Please correct me if im wrong, but it seems to me that Ind-China ties have been warming up for sometime. There trade ties are growing with some limited exercises also on the way. With regard to any boundary issues, there is a kind of comfortable status quo. China is busy with its Taiwan issue while trying to keep its economic growth stable, and under these circumstances there is almost no chance of any chinese misadvanture in those areas. OTOH, India is also growing at a rapid pace, and needs China on its side with regard to nuclear staus getting through NSG as well as semi/permanent SC seat at some point in future.
And now this???
Could anyone more learned in indian matters please make a head or tail of this?
vikasrehmanWhat’s your take on this people?
Indian Defence Ministry officials refused to comment, but sources said the Gorshkov’s delivery will be delayed by more than two years.
vikasrehmanErr, India always had the choice to buy western types of a/c such as the M2k/5. Hence, it had Mirage 2000s and Jags since the 80s, earlier it operated Mysteres, folland gnats etc. However, cost has been an issue with western birds vis a vis India. IIRC, its expensive price was one reason why the M2k-5 was not chosen and india went with the Su 30MKI instead (and thank GOD for that).. As I said before, I seriously doubt the Russians will get this deal, its either Shornet or Ef2000/Rafale with the Shornet being the favourite even if its for fewer numbers. Please read my previous post.
Just an observation and one which i have made before. While MKI might be comparatively cheaper than M2K-5, i believe it would be a lot more expensive per flight hour. Im basing this observation on a fact (taken from an article on IDAF F-15 published in AFM some 3/4 years back) that IDAF F-15 pilots had to make up their hours on smaller fighters simply because one F-15 flight hour would cost around $15K (or was it $20K?) most of which was fuel costs. Considering russian standard of maintenance and engine efficiency vis-a-vis western ones as well as much heavier MKI airframe, inflation, and much high oil prices of today, i have absolutely no doubt that a single MKI flight hour would cost (as of now) at least what it was costing IDAF per F-15 flight hour a few years back. Over the years (lets say 6,000) these flying costs add up to a lot.
vikasrehmanVikas, I was referring to the article that Joey posted where it was claimed that the Lifecycle costs aspect will no longer be considered due to its complicated structure
Sorry, i didnt realise that.
But it’s mind boggling if that is to happen.
vikasrehmanDepends on the size of the next 2 carriers, IIRC there will be 2 more carriers, some report mentions a total of 4 carrier fleet.
Even so, its difficult to imagine that IN would want to operate/deploy three totally different Fighter types on it carrier fleet, when the whole modernisation trend in 21st century is to increase commonality/reduce fighter types.
vikasrehmani think navy is interested in acquiring F-35 after 2020 as said by admiral in an interview unless Naval Pak-fa is considered by india and russia
Which, makes a purchase of Super Hornets in the mean time as a perfect avenue until the Lightning becomes available…………
Mig-29K is on its way and is likely to remain in operational service for next 30 odd years. IN is very much interested (with active funding?) in navalised LCA, which once operationalised should also remain in service for 30 odd years. Unless im mistaken, IN is planning to be operating 3 carriers over next few years, but how many fighter types do u realistically think IN would want to operationalise?
vikasrehmanI’m reluctantly agreeing that the MiG-35 is the favourite for this order considering its low price if Total Cost of Ownership/Lifecycle costs is being dropped as a criteria.
Mig-35 is probably the cheapest of all. But with escalating fighter unit/flight costs, i think overall life cycle cost matter more now-a-days.
vikasrehmanThat is provided the MKI has not had its RCS reduced itself by a significant margin compared to a baseline Flanker. And according to reports in edefense, that has been done.
That’s an interesting point Nick. I have seen ppl talking about this aspect of MKI from time to time, but never got round to reading more about it. I assume a RAM quoting is one obvious thing which is likely to have been applied to MKI and mayb use of some composites (?). Do u have any information with regard to these RCS reduction measures that have been incorporated into MKI in comparison with a baseline flanker?
In a true battle, both the MKI and EF would keep the Bars and Captor switched off till the last moment and rely on AWACS feed. The Bars & Captor would be put on, only to guide the missile in! And both the Bars and Captor can do that vs the EF or MKI respectively.
Tactics, tactics, tactics and tactics. Thats what counts between fighters of a similar class and performance pros and cons which tend to even out.
Thank you for that. 🙂
It is unbelievable (well its not really) to see ppl talking as if in any potential BVR engagement would involve both fighters coming in with their radars on without realising that opponent’s RWR would be screaming like anything thus negating the advantage of surprise, a crucial element in any BVR engagement…and that its all about tactics as u have quite eloquently put it in your post. Im not sure about the range of IRST system on MKI, but to be honest, if its long enough i consider that along with R-27 to be probably as big a threat as Bars/R-73.
vikasrehmanAnd when external-loadout comes into scenario the difference in RCS if is not too much, having a powerful radar negates that.(RCS versus Range-Detection)
Joey, while i agree with ur statement regarding external loads and their effects on overall RCS, having a powerful radar and its frequent use also denies the platform the opportunity of surprise which is of utmost importance in BVR engagements.
vikasrehmanthis is’nt just your regular Flanker..its a Bars N011M and 3D TVC equipped fighter that has an equipment fit better than any other Flanker..I can hardly see how a Typhoon would ‘eat’ an MKI without taking a mauling itself..
Very true. But Typhoon also has an excellent set of avionics, and probably does enjoy a great advantage over MKI in terms of its smaller RCS (probably closest to F-22 of operationally deployed fighters). Having said this, years ago people talked a great deal about typhoon’s ability to win over SU-35 in BAE run simulations (i think ratio was 9:1 or something like that). Now both sides have a better chance of testing each other’s capabilities.
vikasrehmanThey are announcing sale of 40 rafales to India?
Unlikely. The reporter barely mentioned the news in a single sentence, and i guess he might have made a simple mistake, i.e. might have meant something else and not rafale.
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