The timelines of MK1A do not sound very encouraging for MK2’s future. Does this mean an end for MK2 in IAF and India will instead focus on AMCA in terms of home grown products?
1. The area of operation was spread across 250 km. The troops had to circumvent a lot of pak border infra to reach their objective. Use of helos to ferry troops isn’t unimaginable. As per reports, there were a flurry of helicopter sorties to all sorts of possible infil locations, usually in pairs, to confuse the hell out of anyone keeping a track on them. Use of multiple modes of incursion is totally plausible given the large number of camps hit and mix of Para SF and Ghatak troops being put to use.
2. Launchpads are usually under the umbrella of pak border posts and pillboxes to provide cover fire. Once SHTF, a quick evac becomes crucial. Plus helos can fly near undetected in the terrain at treetop level owing to the topographical features and lack of radar coverage in shadows of mountains.
3. Arty fire is business as usual stuff. Even cross border raids are nothing new. The whole affair was supposed to be public and with a visible bloody nose. There were reports of a raid before this raid that were immediately quashed down by the army. The earlier reports of the Raid coincided with declaration of no fly zone over Pakistani turf and visibly increased Pak military tempo.Pakistan has played right into the game, if they admit there was a raid, it would be a major loss of H&D and they would have to publicly up the ante in a manner that doesn’t involve non state actors. If they don’t admit there was a raid, that’s a green light to India to keep carrying out raids like these. Indian side expects infiltration, they have been dealing with it for the last 30 years. They have put up mechanisms in place to dissuade infiltration, multiple border fences, infra red sensors, ground motion sensors, infrastructure that took billions of dollars and decades to put in place. Pakistan OTOH neither has the time nor budget to prepare for two way traffic instead of the one way they were very used to.
That’s a lot of information.
I don’t know which sectors were involved, I have heard 5 and 7. But I can tell you one thing. No one heard any helis around bhimber and samahni (in the dead of the night), the two sectors I have seen mentioned in papers. And this information does not come from journalists, most of whom can’t even tell you where these areas are, but locals who happen to live in these areas. Having said this, of course one cannot deny that these helis may have had super stealthy silencers or they were not used in these areas. Of course there was a lot of cross border firing at the time, but that is the norm there, and life goes on almost as per normal.
My conclusion, as far as these two sectors are concerned, is:
Either there was overhype in Indian media or these ops were conducted in such a way that locals are not aware of anything.
But what was known was that the JF-17 had crashed at sea. Somehow for 2 days after the crash, there was no confirmation from the PAF. Any news on the fate of the pilot?
Through completely private sources only though. Nothing even in local media. Apparently the officials only visited the family yesterday. Private sources are indicating that pilot is unlikely to have survived and I haven’t heard anything otherwise.
I am due for a holiday in that region pretty soon. Let’s see if I get some pics of decent aerial battles. 🙂
Its been a bad week for PAF.
2 jets crashed during their “High mark” exercises. An F-7pg and a JF-17 which went down in the Arabian sea.
Its weird, the news about the JF-17 took so long to get out officially, while the forums were buzz with details about the crash from the day it happened.
Still no clarity about the pilot who was reported to have successfully ejected.http://nation.com.pk/national/02-Oct-2016/jf-17-crashes-into-arabian-sea
The delay may be due to the search & rescue op that was ongoing. The fate of the pilot still not clear.
Must be the case. Very least, wouldn’t a WS-15 class engine require inlet design changes? :confused:
Possibly! Depends if the fighter was designed around WS15 or not, differences between the dimensions of two engines etc. But I was referring to the rest of the airframe.
Its a design philosophy. They have to compensate for having weaker engines compared to the rivals/competitors. Result is longer, narrower fighters. J-10 and J-20 follows this pattern. J-20 itself won’t reach its true potential until the WS-15 with 3D TVC is available.
So with more powerful engine, would it need a major redesign?
Meteor, Mica, Astra, R-77, R-27, Derby?
Why is such a variety needed? Does any other airforce operates/plans to operate such a wide range of missiles?
The Chinese aviation industry used a number of other designs to get to where it stands today. They simply refused to re-invent the wheel but learnt as they went along. Call it copying or anything else one may like, but the fact is that it has helped them tremendously over the years. Even if the Chinese come up with a flying saucer design, seeing the levels of biasedness on some fora, I would not be surprised if they would be accused of receiving help from ET.
Loves me
Loves me not
Loves me
Loves me not
Loves me
And it goes on and on and on…
can another SLEP program increase the number of max service hours to beyond 8000 hours? These already have been through the Falcon Up program to extend their lives from 4000 hrs to 8000 hrs. I suppose, if the PAF does buy them, they’d be available at very economical cost if taken as is and could be used for another decade and then retired. Less capable than the other F-16s in the PAF fleet I suppose but good enough to make up numbers for a decade.
Possible!
Provided, and it is very likely, they get these machines (more and more such options will be available in future), their role would depend on cost benefit analysis. Another factor to be considered is that PAF is already looking at the possible replacement of F-16s, and the only realistic option available over the next 10 years or so would be FC-31.
From Aviation Week- RJAF may be looking to sell another 15 ex- USAF F-16 MLU models that it operates and Pakistan may be one of the likely buyers.
Although these are MLU machines, they probably carry APG-66 v2, unlike PAF’s updated machines which have APG-68v9. Most of these already have 5-6k hours and if PAF wants to keep them in service for long, they’d need comprehensive SLEP type updating and modern avionics. PAF still has an option to go for 14 or so MLU kits including the latter radar, but taking into account the 13 ex-RJAF machines they recently purchased they may opt for two variants…at a greater operating cost.
PAC signed a $10.2 mil contract with Nigeria to supply 10 super mushak trainers. Three JF-17s to be delivered before the year end. Another contract for up to 20, at a cost of $25 mil a pop, expected soon.
Source: Defense News
Nirav,
Countries like Pakistan will remain dependent on the whims of China, USA etc for the foreseeable future. There’s no two way about it. The weapons of future need a lot of money to be poured in and most countries simply don’t have that sort of resources. What PAF gained from JF-17 will be used in some form, but not necessarily in 5th gen development.
Are you familiar with the old sayings money doesn’t grow on trees and a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush?
100 “not a pound for air to ground” J-10 would pay for 140 multirole JF-17. Going for J-10s would force PAF to keep those vastly less capable Mirages in service for ground attack. Not to mention there was no spare J-10 production in the 2000s so they’d have to wait even longer. Finally China was willing to cut Pakistan in on a piece of the action if they find export customers. What is so hard to understand?
The radar on JF-17 is a derivative of the one J-10A. Almost all weapon integration on JF-17 happened in Pakistan. Had more F-16 not materialised and upgraded- PAF have just signed another contract with TAI for upgrading more F-16s-PAF would undoubtedly gone the J-10 route, which would have followed JF-17 path. With the availability of F-16s, they simply saw no reason, to bring J-10 which would have added additional constraints on their limited resources. Whether anymore new F-16 airframes are purchased or not, I think PAF would follow the mirage route vis-a-vis F-16 in future and I can’t see J-10 joining PAF unless push comes to the shove, I.e. no more F-16s are available and they desperately need another fighter. Depending on the timeframe, even then they may prefer to opt for a quick induction of something like FC-31 optimised for A2A role unless they go completely the other way, I.e. LRSAMs.