vikasrehmanVery simple, economics is the key here. PAF does not have the hard cash to go in for the Grippen. This fact can be gauged from the fact that PAF is buying phased out and grounded Mirage IIIs to cannibalize and keep its current fleet of obsolete aircraft airworthy, as even the spares are not in production anymore. No country with hard cash sufficient to buy an aircraft as expensive as the Grippen would be indulging in such measures as the PAF is doing. In fact the Grippen makers offered PAF the grippen and said 40 of these can do the job of the 195 or so Mirage IIIs in service with the PAF, but economics dictate US military aid in the form of F-16s if they ever come by, and no Grippen.
‘Gripen maker’ would love to sell their bird to as many countries as possible, but unfortuntaley they need swedish government’s prior approval. Dont tell us now that Sweden has already approved that sale??? As for PAF, they have already shown their interest.
Regarding buying phased out/grounded mirages to be used as spare parts, one may consider this a good move especially when spare parts r really hard to come by. Unless im mistake, when an aircraft is mothballed for any reason, most airforces (even those who can afford Gripen and better) would try to take anything re-usable. Most airforces now-a-days r trying to cut their costs, and use all sorts of means to achieve their aims.
vikasrehmanGeorge
Thanks for the info mate. However, i can only wish i had the sort of time to actually use the methods u have suggested. Perhaps it’d be better if i rephrase my question slightly…wot is the total number (even an estimate…i have come across 830) of Mig-21s purchased by IAF, and how many it lost through war/accidents etc.?
vikasrehmanA question!
Does anyone know the total number of Mig-21s (all variants) that were procured for IAF either directly from foreign sources or HAL, and how many have been lost in accidents?
Thanks in advance!
vikasrehmanMay interest some of yous…if u r rich & live in India. 😀
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/950985.cms
Get a fighter jet free and put on an air show
SRINIVAS LAXMAN
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 08, 2004 02:47:41 AM ]
MUMBAI: From an air force station to a public garden or perhaps evena traffic island— for the first time the Indian Air Force (IAF) is offering its vintage fighter jets free to anyone who can preserve and display them at prominent places in their cities.
Confirming this to TOI on Monday, an air force spokesperson in New Delhi said the idea was to make the people of this country “air-minded”, especially the younger generation.
Althoughhe couldnot specify the exact number of old planes currently in IAF’s inventory, he said that some of the old planes included Hunters, Canberras, Gnats and Vampires, which had had their days of glory during the Indo-Chinese and Indo-Pak wars.
The spokesperson said that those interested in taking charge of these old aircraft should apply to local air force officials who would evaluate the request and make recommendations to Air Headquarters in New Delhi.
He said, “Those who are given an aircraft after completing various formalities will have to provide an undertaking that they will preserve it and not allow it to decay.”
Other IAF officials said that usually old planes were sold as scrap. “But these jets have historical value and we are sentimental about them. So, we took a decision to give them free to anyone who can guarantee that they will be maintained properly,” said an air force official.
Emphasising just how sentimental theair force was about its planes,he recalled that on many occasions priests of all religions had offered prayers to an aircraft “for their well-being”.
On earlier occasions the IAF has donated its planes to private agencies or a municipal body for displaying them in public places. “But these were rare. This is the first time we have made a public offer through an advertisement and we have been flooded with inquiries,” the official said.
vikasrehmanThe article states ‘with the Air Force taking the lead in negotiations’ – this suggests the PAF is equaly if not more interested in the Hawkeye than the PN. While the PAF and Pakistan in general has grave reservations about U.S. equipment due to their previous bitter experience with sanctions – I’m afraid that U.S. equipment is just too damn good, the terms too attractive to egnore. PAF officials have often stated that U.S. equipment almost without exception give best bang per buck. This is a very important point for a country with limited budget.
Absolutely right. In addition, though some ppl have argued that Pakistan may end up going for both systems, considering limited funds available to PAF/PN, i dont think this option would be exercised due to long term maintenance/logistic costs.
vikasrehmanDesert Fox
Please dont take it the wrong way, but i have a few comments to make about some of the stuff u have said thus far.
big difference ! dont backtrack now, by claiming that you said “No longer the most important thing”. the point is that you basically said that a 3-gen aircraft with decent avionics can do what a 4-5 th gen fighter that is a better platform, can do. and that is so not true ! a good new-gen platform holds a lot of advantages, weight wise, performance wise, strength wise, over an older all-metal frame. only avionics cant make up for deficiencies of the platform.
Im sure u do recognise the generational differences between a mig-21 and F-15s and their capabilities. A few years ago, one would have laughed if he/she heard that an indian mig-21 can make a stand against american F-15. But now we know that indian Bisons were ‘equivalent to the US F-15 fighters’ during cope 2004 exercises. How do we know this? Well IAF chief Air Chief Marshal S Krishnaswamy told us so.
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=237850
What turned a 2nd generation mig-21 into an equivalent of American pride F-15? Composites? Aerodynamic changes? Changes in it RCS? Avionics? or am i missing something here?
BTW, wot percentage of MKI (generally considered as as 4++ gen fighter) consists of modern composites, and would LCA due to its high usage of composites be able to match LCA in performance?
yeah, so it basically puts the FC-1 on par with the MiG-21 Bison, does’nt it ? no new materials or technology (basically all metal) for its structure, Chinese avionics , and already known flight characteristics (remember all the stunts in the first flight test itself ! made all Jehadis sooo happy ! ), with a few BVR weapons makes it about as smashing as our Bisons.
If so, then one can theoretically consider FC-1 as equivalent to F-15…which is not bad at all. Dont u think?
In which case, the Bison, which has a Kopyo radar that is definitely better than current Chinese radars, EW and counter-measures, Russian BVR missiles, and the Sura HMS with R-73 missiles (something that the FC-1 can’t boast of as of now), would stand up trumps against the Owlet Dragon
We all know about kopyo on Bison, but ur words seem to suggest that u know more (than any of us) about chinese radars. If u dont mind, please share the details of current chinese radar projects, and why do u think they r ‘definitely’ inferior to kopyo. Please dont give us the jargon from one or the other link while trying to make generalisations, but try to provide us with the detailed comparsion of chinese radars performace and that of kopyo’s. I would also appreciate it very much if u can do the same for chinese and Bison EW and ECMs and other capabilities dat u have mentioned in ur post. Finally, since FC-1’s serial production is to start in 2007, do u know whether it would house a ‘current’ or ‘more advanced’ version of chinese radar?
vikasrehmanThis news yet surfaces once again.
vikasrehmanCouple of interesting articles.
Russia Seeks Intellectual Property Guarantees
During the news conference, the Indian defense minister also disclosed that Russian experts have presented a formal concept for fifth-generation combat aircraft to Indian defense officials. Experts here are working out details of specific Indian requirements for this project.
However, Mukherjee said both sides must work out details before sealing any formal agreement regarding such aircraft.
vikasrehmanGA
Following is a slightly more detailed version of russian defence ministry statement that came on the heels of Mr Ivanov’s visit (soon to be followed by Mr Putin).
Russia sets terms for arms sales to India
By Jawed Naqvi
NEW DELHI, Dec 1: Russia will not sell any arms to Pakistan if India honoured Moscow’s interests in mutual defence cooperation, Press Trust of India said on Wednesday quoting a Russian official in Moscow.
“If India will not fully honour our interests, then there is no need to attach strings, conditions and demands from Russia not to trade (in arms) with Pakistan,” an unnamed defence ministry source was quoted as saying by the state-run RIA Novosti agency ahead of Russian President Putin’s India visit beginning on Friday.
Pointing that currently at the request of India, Moscow is not co-operating with Islamabad in defence sector, the unnamed official said that in case India does not keep in view Russia’s interests, the military ties with Pakistan can be resumed.
So far Russia has supplied Mi-17 dual-purpose helicopters to Pakistan, PTI said. The news agency quoted Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov as saying in Moscow on Tuesday that defence ties with India could come to a halt if India sought to mix its technologies with proposed purchases from the United States.
Russia, which was India’s largest arms supplier, mostly on generous credit, now wants the Rupee-Rouble issue to be resolved in a mutually beneficial manner and the pending Rupees worth three billion dollars re-invested on concrete projects either on Indian soil or in Russia. Moscow is keen that India extend its support to Russia joining the WTO. A document in this regard may be signed during Mr Putin’s three-day visit.
vikasrehmanedited!
vikasrehmanNitin
By all means, keep wasting your time…it does not harm my health. Only proves my point even further that many from ‘certain regions’ (and i’d remind u again ‘from both sides’) do indeed suffer from severe inferiority complex…something rather surprising in this modern day and age.
PS. Lets leave it at that.
vikasrehmanDo u guys mind sticking to the topic.
It seems that this forum is full of ppl with inferiority complex…and on both sides. Y do ppl of ‘certain origins’ have to ruin every topic of interest by utter nonsense in vain attempts to prove ‘mine is longer’???
vikasrehmanGA
U should know better matie…afterall u r the one who posted the following link in another thread.
http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=5158357&startrow=11&date=2004-12-01&do_alert=0
It quite obvious that whereas on one hand Russian defence minister is telling India (and of course china and Pakistan) that they may not supplying RD-93 for JF-17, on the other russian defence ministry tells india wot is required. Wouldn’t u agree?
As i have mentioned elsewhere, india is increasingly diversifying its sources, and russian markets would need to find alternative markets (unless India has plenty of money for both the russians and diversification).
vikasrehmanThats sounds logical. Whereas in past, russia was the biggest benefactor of indian arms purchases, latter is increasingly diversifying mainly due to solid economic growth and availability of alternatives. Since russian arms manufacturing industry is so heavily dependent on exports, it also needs to find alternatives markets.
vikasrehmanAny comments on the following as to y russians r insisting on an IPR???
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