Sameer

I dont even understand why you would want the Griphen when you can get a cheaper J-10 a few years down the road.

For a few simple reasons?
New F-16s r obviously not available.
M2K-5/9 is expensive and not much point when IAF is already interested in aquiring a much bigger fleet of M2k-5.
Rafale/Typhoon r beyond PAF’s league.
J-10 is a new product and would take another decade or so to mature.

All this leaves Gripen as the only viable choice, which is though affordable but availability is the issue here.

In an ideal environment, PAF doesnt want to become a solely chinese dependent forces, but rather go for diversification. They want a western hi tech fighter for the time being and would go for more advanced versions of J-10 in future. But one has to recognise that strategies dont always evolve the way one wants them to be. If a western hi tech fighter contract doesnt materialise over next yr or so, then PAF will end up going for J-10 (which would b better than anything PAF would have in its inventory) even though it’d not b matured yet.

Y do so called military aviation enthusiasts (from both sides, i.e. Pakistan and india) r so blind dat they cant even interpret different news in an appropriate manner???

Srbin

$35 mil per SU-35 for Brazil is indeed a surprise (and a massive one)…especially if it comes with everything.

Just take a look at past few deals.
China bought 26 SU-27s in 1991 at $32 mil per unit-deal included 150 AAMs.
Their second batch in 1995 also came at about the same price, while the third batch of 28 SU-27UBK came at $35 mil a piece in 2000-all basic facilities should have been in place after first deal (at least in theory).

As for SU-30MKK, china purchased the first batch (38) at a price of $49 mil per unit in 1999, while second batch (38 units) was purchased for about $40 mil. One has to remember that not all chinese missile have come from russia, but they also purchased a large number of AAMs (Alamos) from Ukraine-[ersumably in a separate deal.

SU-35 is more advanced than MKK…and at $35 mil a piece (including everything) while Brazil is buying onle a small number is indeed a shocker.

Finally, the reason y MKI is costing $34 mil a piece is cos India is producing 140 units under TOT, while Gripen seems so expensive cos SA/Hungary r only purchasing a handful number of units directly from Sweden. Just imagine how much MKI would cost if 20 or so units were purchased from Russia directly, in comparison with 140 gripens being produced at home under TOT.

According to Israeli AF, it costs them >$15,000/h to fly F-15 (figures published in an AFM article couple of yrs back), hence the pilots have to make up their hours on smaller machines. I’d b very much surprised if MKI (probably requires more maintenance and overhauls than F-15 and has lower engine and airframe lives) is cheaper to fly-though of course one will also have to take into consideration the total number of aircrafts in inventory.

PS. Unless im mistaken, according to indian sources, TVC nozzles on MKI engine require an overhaul every 250 hours, while the whole overall engine requires an overhaul every 1000 hours. It’d indeed be interesting to get comparative figures for F-15.

Wolverine

It seems even sources like forecast international dont mind publishing rumours.

Do these Indian/Pakistani slurmatches have anything to do with the weather, biorhythms or the sun crossing any particular lattitudes? Every two to three months the circus rolls again just like the famous

Probably a synchronised PMT 😀

you can beleive whatever you like. the facilities for HAL made MKIs are by and large ready. 2006 is the date they are supposed to fly. but delyas do happen. so if you like to be pessimistic then 2007 is not a bad date to choose. but like i said with HAL expanding you can only expect the induction of 190MKIs quicker.

about the LCA – again beleive what you like. actually you picked a rather positive article. there are plenty of articles claiming 2015 IOC. why didnt you get one of those? those will even furthur solidify your theory.
look its simple as this – 2006 IOC and 2008 FOC
this came straight from the horse’s mouth. ADA cheif excecutive and IAF ACM. so either take it or leave.

Dear sir,
Its not a question of me believing or taking or leaving something. 🙂
Regarding MKI, i was simply quoting AFM. Now i dont exactly remember wot issue (month) it was, but it was in 2004 (probably March/April issue). The news in fact also mentioned the expansion of HAL facilities. Now if first flight is made in 2007, u r talking of almost 18 aircrafts per year till 2015 to induct 140 into service…which would indeed b miraculous.
Regarding LCA, once again, its the Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister and chief of the DRDO, Dr V.K. Aatre who is talking of 4 squadrons. So unless u know better than this gentleman, i’d rather take his word.

PS. Aren’t DRDO, HAL, ADA all collaborating on LCA project?

by 2015 60 squadrons are very real possibility. in the next 10 years you have 190 MKIs, 220LCAs and 125 M2Ks. thats 30 new squadrons assuming 16+2.

With all due respect, dats quite a few assumptions…dont u think?
How many LCAs/MKIs IAF was suppose to have by 2004 and how many does it have? When would first indian MKI make its first flight and when would first LCA enter operational srvice? Wot makes u think that by 2015, IAF will b operating 190MKIs and 220 LCAs?
As for M2K-5, when do u think IAF will sign the deal. Wot guarantees do u have that this deal wont suffer the fate of AJT/Gorshkov deals???

high on pot vikasrehman? the IAF is already an overkill for PAF. even if you add a light combat aircraft like gripen to the inventory you still cannot match the IAF firepower. PAF dosent even come into the “eventuialities” list of IAF anymore.

No sir, im neither on pot nor dreaming. I do agree when u say dat IAF is already an overkill for PAF and dat PAF will always b playing catching game…a point dat i myself have been making for sometime.
However, regarding PAF not coming into IAF “eventualities” list, i beg to differ. One only has to visit a few forums to realise this fact. In fact, this very thread is a classical example. One cannot but notice that whenever there is any news about PAF, indians or ppl of indian origin start a flame war. They come to those threads like bees to honey. Now this doesnt really show wot u r claiming. FC-1’s first unofficial flight was another example…where despite tens of photographs flying all over the net Indian experts on BR were still claiming them to b photoshops. I do recognise sir that PAF is a small force, much smaller than IAF and with rather limited sources. But if an alien came to some of these forums, it may think otherwise due to indian obssession with PAF. If u want to know wot not coming into “eventualities” list is then plz visit some PLA forums, where chinese dont even bother posting in indian related news threads-regardless of their nature. IAF may not consider PAF a threat, but indians or ppl of indian origin (on these forum) definitely seem to think so. Its easy to make a claim, but difficult to prove it. I hope, u take my meaning.

PS. Take a look at indian 1973’s post…to the indian posters -> please dont get into a flame war.
IAF stopped worrying about PAF in early 1990s and shifted to
worrying about PLAAF. nothing has happened to change that perception yet.
congrats to PAF if they can get the Gripen.

Simple, straight and to the point.
Those who dont worry about others also dont bother to write essays about them.
Its as simple.