To b honest, even that brochure doesnt lessen the confusion. It has URL for catic’s website, and FC-1’s specs there r quite different (probably not updated).
http://web.catic.com.cn/cpwin.asp?as_lm1=3&as_lm2=1&as_lm3=%20&as_lm4=%20&as_dm=4
GoldenDragon
How about the launch rails?
PS. is there any definitive report/article about FC-1’s empty weight. I have also seen 6,400+ figures. Also how about its ferry range. Brochure says 3,000Km while recent articles have been mentioning 3,500Km for jf-17???
Wrong
The main technical reason is that UK and France didn’t have the same goal, spacially because of the naval version for the French navy.
From a political point of view, Dassault is leaded by morons.
I used the words of many reason dat French cited, meaning there were other reasons too…probably more important onse. Please refer to Doug Richardson’s stealth warplanes 🙂
Crobato
Do u have a link to the official CAC brochure for fC-1?
If not, do u know if the deatils r similar to the ones on pakdef and global security links (even though there r some difference between these two links)?
http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/ac/fc-1.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/fc-1.htm
PS. I think normal take off weight of 9072 Kg for FC-1 only includes wingtip missiles/launching rails.
Those radars mentioned have multiple tracking ability and two of them are less complex than the Grifo S-7.
It is typical of modern radars to have multiple tracking abiltiy. Factory sources did quote that FC-1 has requirements for multiple tracking. Common sense tells you that this will be the requirement for the S-7 radar as well.
I second that.
I just came across an article from flight international (16 June 1999), which states that most powerful version of RC400 can track up to 24 targets, eight of which can be targeted simultaneously, with automatic prioritisation of four.
Now we all know that two main contenders for JF-17 were RC-400 and Grifo-S7. Currently, there r some indications that PAF would opt for latter, and i’d be damn surprised :confused: if Grifo S7 (especially considering the fact that it was referred to as the most advanced version of Grifo…including Grifo 2000…by Fiar officials at Ideas 2003 ) doesnt offer multi engagement capibility while its main competitor RC-400 is offering 8. :rolleyes:
Unless im mistaken PAF bought them rather cheaply and only for spares.
Sorry. Clarification. Thrust should be 8300kg, which is the same as the RD-33 and unchanged.
Found something relevant on PDF…just an excerpt from an article.
Aviation Week & Space Technology
Vol. 153, No. 8 (2000)
Russian Engine Makers Jockey for New Orders
ALEXEY KOMAROV
Meanwhile, the St. Petersburg-based Klimov plant is working on the RD-93, an in-depth modification of the MiG-29’s RD-33 turbofan, developed for an order from China. According to Klimov General Director Alexander Sarkisov, the RD-93 was developed to power China’s new light multirole fighter, the FC-1 (Super-7), designed by the Chinese Aircraft Industrial Group in a joint program with the Mikoyan design bureau. The engine’s dry weight is 1,055 kg., dry thrust is 5,040 kgf. (11,090-lb. thrust) and full afterburning thrust is 8,300 kgf. (18,260-lb. thrust).
Sarkisov does not exclude the possibility that the RD-93 and an upgraded RD-33 with thrust-vectoring nozzle, dubbed the RD-133, could be offered to power combat aircraft, including MiG-29 tactical fighters, in several other countries.
One can safely assume that the price of JSF is likely to be more than Rafale..and significantly more…like around ~125 million dollars. With typhoon and Rafale prices in the range of 100 million..its got to be more than that. that old 40 or 50 million figure is a joke…just to make congress happy.
One reason y Typhoon/Rafale r so expensive is that only a small number of units r planned. In comparsion, $35-40 mil figure for JSF is based on around 3,000 units. Considering the history of modern military aviation, no doubt there will be delays and cuts in JSF orders. But even if only 2000 units r produced, it’s likely to b cheaper in comparison with either typhoon or rafale.
Fab fighter…but now after seeing that price tag ($95 mil) im thinking is it really worth it? :confused:
As for PAF, even if they were interested, i dont think they would remain so after seeing this hefty price. Saudis may turn out to b a potential candidate though, and i have heard that BAE have offered them 50 pieces…but the quoted price was around $2.5 bil :confused:
Would any country be willing to take part in a russian true 5th gen fighter, unless they know that its future is secure? Could such a fighter have a secure future unless russian air force goes ahead and purchases a considerable number of units?
I have no doubt that russians can produce a true 5th gen fighter, but it has formiddable challenges. Probably the best solution mayb a JSF type consortium…which would get them more finance, secure exports which in turn would keep the unit price low and hence attract more interest on the market.
In 1990s, everyone assumed that a russian 5th gen fighter will b in F-22 class. However, recent reports (probably couple of years old) quoting russian officials indicate that it’ll more a JSF type fighter. Nevertheless, its quite difficult to envisage its real status at this stage, as im sure the project will continue to eveolve in the foreseeble future.
That said, there r a few things which are worth questioning.
1. Both F-22 and JSF have taken billions in terms of R&D. Does russia have that sort of money, even if one takes into account low russian costs.
2. Even if another country like india or china funds this project, how much money would it require and how long will it b b4 this fighter with state of the art new gen avionics can b put into service?
3. We all know how expensive F-22 is turning out to b. Without taking into account its R&D, unit price will be around $130 mil. OTOH, JSF is envisaged to b much cheaper fighter assuming 2000-3000 units r produced. Now, if a russian 5th gen fighter is indeed fielded by (say) 2015, i cant imagine too many units being produced…and if so wot would b its unit price like?
Point to note;
Source: Press Trust of India
The JF-17/FC-1 is described as a multi-role attack fighter with delta wings, a conventional tail and a fly-by-wire flight control system.
PS. I wonder which weekly the report is referring to? Janes???
Do we have any *official* PAF word on whether Russia has authorized RD-93 to be produced for Pakistan?
Well various reports from mainstream media after official briefing have said that JF-17 will use RD-93, which indicates that Russian must have authorised its use. In fact, AFM (oct 2003) issue also mentined that RD-93 has been selected. It was back in 2001 (or 2002?) when russia made a fuss about engine supply, but the issue seems to have been resolved quite quickly. I think the bigger question at present is whether RD-93 will b supplied by Klimov or licence produced in china under the designation of rD-93.
Any word on how many flights have taken place?
No idea…but quite a few since the second prototype is already out and the aircraft enetred the supersonic regime on April 9.
Any word on exactly what technology/advancement Pakistan has contributed for this project?
Not any info available on this one apart from the fact that a small number of pakistani engineers was working on the project along side a much larger contingent of their chinese counterpart. But in any case, pakistani contribution (if any) is unlikely to be of significant nature as this is their first attempt in this regard.
How many times have you seen PAF acknowledge openly about things that may not be flattering to their image?
Not many…or perhaps not any.
But dont most armed services operate in the same way?
How many other journalists who also atended that briefing have quoted the same thing as she does?
it was mainly the mainstream pakistani media which covered the briefing? Does one expect common newspapers to print technical details? OTOH, there should b some difference between an ordinary journalist (say from dawn) and JDW correspondent.
Up until now, how much of FC-1 news has been officially reported by PAF? Did you not believe anonymous sources until now?
Well, most of the information that i personally have comes from media with named sources.
PS. Lets leave this issue for a while. AFM editor was recently in Pak and hopefully we’ll get to hear some details about JF-17 in near future. But then of course, he can make mistakes too :rolleyes:
I dont have any experience in any media.
Yet i assume that to get something published in a high profile magazine such as Janes, the actual report has to go through various hands (including that of editor’s) which should reduce the overall margin of error.
PS. This is not to say that Janes is error proof.