halloweeneSome more from “Pic” (part four)
F 35 Data Link
The Rafale and the F-35 are both equipped with data link 16. For the F 35 is also expected to add MADL link.
MADL Datalink
Multifunction Advanced Data Link – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL) is a future data waveform to provide secure data-linking technology between stealth aircraft. It began as a method to coordinate between F-35 aircraft (the Joint Strike Fighter), but HQ Air Combat Command wants to expand the capabiltiy to coordinate future USAF strike forces of all AF stealth aircraft, including the B-2, F-22, and unmanned systems. MADL is expected to provide needed throughput, latency, frequency-hopping and anti-jamming capability with phased Array Antenna Assemblies (AAAs) that send and receive tightly directed radio signals.[1] MADL uses the Ku band.[2]
The Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics directed the Air Force and Navy to integrate MADL among the F-22, F-35 and B-2, to one another and to the rest of network.
As of 2010, the Air Force has canceled upgrade plans for the F-22 to receive MADL citing technology maturity risks.
Critics contend that since Link-16 is the standard by which U.S. and Allied aircraft communicate, upgrades to Link-16 radios should be supported that can provide the same capabilities as MADL while maintaining interoperability.[citation needed]
MADL’s line of sight nature and limited range restrict the scenarios where it can be used to connect beyond a four aircraft flight.
Rafale Data link
Rafale is equipped with Link 16 but has not yet similar MADL data link that is scheduled for F35.
In this section I will try to show why such a link is important and what are the plans for the Rafale. First let me say that the Rafale is not behind the F 35 MADL. The link is not yet available on the F 35 and it is not sure it will be operational before the Rafale . Rafale get simply a method of incremental development, while the development of the F 35 is at once.
I will now speak of signal processing. I created a thread where I talk about in more detail:
Stealth technologies approachBut here I will not be as rigorous and I’ll be more descriptive for the reader to feel the benefit of the data link.
The basis of the signal processing is to search for a signal taking into account its characteristics. If you do not know its characteristics, it is necessary that the signal strength is greater than the noise so we can find it. For example, a radar knows the signal that he sent, and therefore has an advantage over the ESM seeking to detect it.
But ESM build signatures library to reduce their disadvantage. In conséquense radars emit versatile signals and change their characteristics in real time.
The goal of treatment is usually to know if the signal is present, and measure the corresponding time and frequency. For a radar for example it can estimate the distance of the target and its radial velocity.
How does it works? there is now components call “correlator” which use Fast Fourrier Transform (FFT) which are able to make the traitment.
The priciple is to make a convolution product with the signal you search and the signal you receive: the result is a Dirac 0 if the 2 signals are different and infini (in theory) if they are the same. In fact the traitment compress the return as if all the energy was send at the same time. With this kind of traitment you can spread your energy in a long impulsion and detect the target as if the impulsion was short. I have made a more detailed description of the traitment for Galileo signal.India to launch AWACS project to counter China, Pak
The problem is that you need to makes the traitment for all possible frequencies and all possible time of return but this approach is successfull because ther is now chips with ten of thousands correlators available.
The new GPS engine, based on Magellan’s GPS technology, boasts capability for the fastest acquisition of satellite signals, with a hot start in less than 2 seconds, and the highest tracking sensitivity (-159 dBm) available. The advanced GPS technology employs the power of tens of thousands of correlators to achieve rapid satellite acquisition and reliable tracking under weak signal conditions.
New GPS ChipsetNow suppose that you have a discret data link on which you can send not only track but also measures. If you detect a signal you can send it to other platforms and increase their sensibility (They will know what to find). You can send your radar signature and make multistatic detection. You can use the delta time of arrival of the same signal on the receiver of two planes to estimate the direction of a threat… and so on. For Rafale it is the purpose of Tragedac to develop such traitment and to define the corresponding data link.
Linked parts :
1-multistatic radars
I have tried to answer your question using multistatic radar and some signal detection approach used by navigation satellite receiver.
The detection of GNSS signals
The signal GNSS is spread signals, as those whom we use on radars with compression of impulses. The codes used for the signals were chosen because they present very good properties of correlation. The detection is made by correlation of a replica of the signal generated locally in the receiver and a received signal. To reconstitute the spread signal, it is necessary to know the way it was spread, what is a means to protect itself from the use of the signal by the enemies.
The signal processing consists in calculating the gap between the signals of the replica and of the satellite.
The sensibility of the detection is big because we know the signal for which we try to detect and for which we can thus differentiate it of the noise more easily. The used principle of detection would not work if we did not know the signal. We are going to be able to increase the sensibility of the receiver thanks to the computing power.
Indeed the more we compare a long sequence between both signals and the more it will be possible to detect weak signals. The initial detection is thus the most binding because then a restricted domain time X frequency can be calculated where a new detection is possible.
For the initial detection the receiver divides the space time X frequency into elementary cell in which it is going to try a correlation of the signal received with the replica which it generated. When the correlation is positive the receiver knows the hour of arrived from the signal and his Doppler. This information allows it to calculate triangulations and speeds. The later detection follows the same principle but set less time because we limit the correlation to the restricted domain which was calculated.
The speed of calculation allows realizing this processing at reasonable time on a domain time X frequency being enough. The more this speed is big and the more the processing
The more this speed is big and the more the processing can be made on a long sequence of the signal what increases the sensibility of the receiver.
There was some progress in the processing of signal and we have now components which offer the function “correlator” directly without passing by the Fourier transform. There are even components massively parallel such the GPS CW25 receiver of NAVSYNC which offers correlator 12288
http: // GPS receiver OEM module manufacturers – NavSync / doc / CW25_UM.pdf.
This kind of component was developed to acquire the GPS signals in conditions where they are very weak as for example inside buildings or in the subway but they could be adapted to radar.The multistatic radars
A multistatic radar system contains one or several receivers processing the information of one or several emitters situated on different positions. For every couple of emitter and receiver, the domain of detection is an ellipse among which the emitter and the receiver are foci. For the classic, monostatic radars, the emitter and the receiver occupy the same position and the ellipse is transformed into circle.
If we suppose that we have a multistatic system including an emitter (a kind of AWACS) and receivers (Rafale for example) the domain of detection depends on the relative position of the receivers with regard to the emitter because we have sorts of extensions of the domain around the receivers: the domain extends when the receivers go away from the emitter! What is a favourable circumstance!
The multistatic radars can detect more easily stealth aircrafts because the major principle which allows the stealth it is not to send back energy in the direction of the emitter, but the energy must be absorbed or sent back somewhere else. Only a small part is absorbed what makes detectable a Stealth target by a multistatic radar because of the separation of the emitter and the receivers.
Suppose now that the signal emitted is similar of that of the satellites of navigation (as for pseudolites), the sensibility of the detection will depend mainly on the available computing power to make the correlations. With components massively parallels as the GPS CW25, this power is rather easy to build.
Tests have been made to use directly the signal of satellites to make detection. The results are rather disappointing: 10km of detection on a classic target (not Stealth) but it is already a result. Indeed the emitter is very remote (26000 km) and the power of the emitter is weak (50 w) while the electric generation of an AWACS is of the order of the Megawatt.Characteristics of the emitter
The carrier of the emitter does not need to be as big as for a classic AWACS because the detection is made in the fighter and thus there would be only one or two operators in the AWACS. A Falcon should be enough for carrying the emitter.
The main difficulty of the multistatic radars is the timestamp of the signals due to the fact that the emitter and the receiver are separated. One will need a quality clock in the AWACS, but which does not need to be an atomic clock because the precise time will be the one of the GNSS system(GPS or Galileo). The receiver also will settle comfortably at the time of the constellation of satellites what will allow to interpret correctly the time stamping of the signal emitted.
If correlators work with the direct signal and the signal reflected, the gap of time between both signals defined the ellipse on which is the target and time of emission defined the azimuth in which the signal was emitted.
Another possible difficulty is that the direct signal prevents from detecting the resultant signals of the reflexion. In GNSS receivers techniques exist which track the multiple reflections which take place in complex environments. These techniques have to cancel the main signal first. We can duplicate these techniques to solve the detection problem of the weak signals.
2- Chips with tenths of thousands correlators…
Atmel and Magellan Introduce New GPS Chipset Generation
High Performance GPS Positioning Platform Integrated with an ARM9 Microprocessor and New GPS RF Receiver Targeting PND Applications
Atmel has announced the availability of a new GPS chipset that integrates the world’s latest GPS correlation technology with an ARM926EJ-Sâ„¢-based microprocessor. This new device includes an extended instruction set with DSP extensions and a rich set of peripherals, designed to simplify the design, and drive down system costs, for the rapidly expanding market for Personal Navigation Devices (PNDs), car navigation, and recreational applications.
The ARM9â„¢-powered ATR0663 includes a state-of-the-art GPS baseband and an LCD controller with integrated 2D graphics accelerator for virtual screen support of 2048 x 2048 pixels, an AC97 audio controller, as well as an image sensor interface. Numerous I/O options including Ethernet, USB 2.0 Full Speed Host and Device, SD/MMC, TWI, and USARTs provide a highly-targeted System-on-Chip (SoC) solution for PND applications. In addition, a dual external bus interface and 9-layer bus matrix allow for fast memory access and high throughput without loading the microcontroller.
The new GPS engine, based on Magellan’s GPS technology, boasts capability for the fastest acquisition of satellite signals, with a hot start in less than 2 seconds, and the highest tracking sensitivity (-159 dBm) available. The advanced GPS technology employs the power of tens of thousands of correlators to achieve rapid satellite acquisition and reliable tracking under weak signal conditions.
Rounding out the new chip set introduction, the companion ATR0603 RF receiver IC maximizes the performance of the new GPS engine while combining low cost and low power consumption of only 12 mA in operation.
Also compatible for use with the new chipset is Atmel’s existing ATR0610, a fully-integrated, low-noise amplifier manufactured using Atmel’s innovative Silicon-Germanium (SiGe) process to cope with challenging reception environments and enabling cost-sensitive passive-antenna designs.
The ATR0603 and ATR0663 continue Atmel’s lead in providing the highest performance GPS solutions in this rapidly expanding market. The new GPS engine with its massively parallel correlator concept will also be an integral part of Atmel’s ongoing extension of its consumer GPS portfolio, developing tailored solutions for key GPS market segments.
“The release of this new RF receiver and ARM926EJ-based device sets a new standard for the combination of high-performance GPS with a complete system processor that has all the peripherals necessary to meet the needs of the growing PND market. It is an ideal complement to our automotive-grade ANTARISâ„¢ GPS solution,” commented Matthias Kaestner, Atmel’s Marketing Director for Communications Products.
“Atmel’s new hardware is optimized to run Magellan’s most powerful software platform to provide PND makers with a complete navigation and mapping solution powered by a single SoC. PND suppliers can use this hardware and software platform to provide solutions with a customized look and feel for diverse markets,” said Mike Mouser, Senior Technical Director for the Magellan OEM Business.
The company’s Web site address is http://www.atmel.com/.
About the stealth teh approches, its really too long, you will have to read it 😉
halloweeneNoone denies stealth to be an advantage. And we can have some fun in polite and humourus arguing wothout ppl talking like Da’s. After all, it is one of the main interests in such a forum 😉 .
Dassault is shyly communicating with french press, largely due to french procurement structure…. But there ARE some nice plans tbh.
halloweenehalloweene20 secs from 250 to 600 kts (subsonic acceleration) bye bye Fratercula …
You give Rafale a HMD (as scheduled in indian ones and on french MLU) and mica ng (with dual boost) and in bfm F35 will looklike what it is : roasted turkey ;)))
halloweeneTyphoon has a superior T/W ratio, lets stick to subject plz. Rafale has more range, more T/W ratio, less wing loading, is by far less draggy (will deteriorate energy slowly), has a 9g sustained turn capability, (5g) fully loaded , accelerates much faster etc. In BFM JSF would be a sitting dog. (In bfm i insist)
halloweeneYes, but that means little without the details. Most exercises with the Raptor give the opponent big advantages. Otherwise, the Raptor would just wipe the floor with the typical adversary.
Doesnt look to be the case on that video. Btw there was strictly no advantage, head to head, break and fight! (in all honesty, the fox 2 kill didnt count because excluded by the rules, aswell as gunkill wasnt recorded due to fuel limit) . Still NO adbantage in BFM given during these fights aside of ATLC. ps what is that weird “usable fuel” notion? i missed something.
halloweeneThe Rafale will not out perform the F-35 is payload vs range! You can quote all you want. As I stated in my earlier post. Even if the Rafale carried External Fuel on all Five of it’s External Stores. The useable fuel still wouldn’t match the internal fuel of the F-35A! Plus, the fact that carrying all of that fuel wouldn’t leave room for any External Air to Surface Weapons at all! Let alone make up for the performance penalty from carrying all of those external stores
Yet, for the purpose of debate take a typical 4,000 lbs payload on a strike mission. The F-35 would carry that internally plus 18,250 lbs of fuel. The Rafale would have to carry 3-External Fuel Tanks each with 2,241 lbs of fuel. Of the latter only half of that is usable fuel! (3,362 lbs) So, the Rafale would carry the same payload but all externally with only 13,722 lbs of usable fuel compared to the F-35’s 18,250 lbs in a clean aircraft.
So, do you really believe a Rafale with 3-Large External Fuel Tanks and 4,000 lbs of External Stores with 4,528 lbs less internal fuel is going to have a better (longer) flight profile than a cleane F-35A. If, you do then I think you need to cut back ont he Medication!:rolleyes:
Thank you, you made my day! Value given to Brazil senate is 3×2000 L ext tanks + 6xAASM (250 kgs) + 4 Mica + Laser designation pod, 800 nmi
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In french : Et Toc!
halloweeneThe Rafale is designed to fly below radar horizon & strike from there with AASM or SCALP/ASMP-A. Its weapon are designed to be able to engage targets from a distance that allows it to remain below radar horizon at any time (100 ft high means radar horizon of just above 10 km, which is about the range of AASM 250. AASM 125 would provide even more range if we ever got them).
Knowing that, it’s sillyy to ask what the range of the plane is in a configuration that another plane has been designed for. Do you really think that the AdlA or MN are going to use the Rafale in the way the F35 is going to be used?
The only relevant information one should consider is to what distance the fighter can strike a sensitive target without being detected. Be it by remaining below radar horizon and using SPECTRA to avoid the most dangerous areas, or by flying straight to it at medium or high altitude hoping stealth actually works as advertised.
Nic
AASM range o f AASM released at 100 feet is 15 Kms Nic ;)))
halloweeneThe Rafale will not out perform the F-35 is payload vs range! You can quote all you want. As I stated in my earlier post. Even if the Rafale carried External Fuel on all Five of it’s External Stores. The useable fuel still wouldn’t match the internal fuel of the F-35A! Plus, the fact that carrying all of that fuel wouldn’t leave room for any External Air to Surface Weapons at all! Let alone make up for the performance penalty from carrying all of those external stores
Yet, for the purpose of debate take a typical 4,000 lbs payload on a strike mission. The F-35 would carry that internally plus 18,250 lbs of fuel. The Rafale would have to carry 3-External Fuel Tanks each with 2,241 lbs of fuel. Of the latter only half of that is usable fuel! (3,362 lbs) So, the Rafale would carry the same payload but all externally with only 13,722 lbs of usable fuel compared to the F-35’s 18,250 lbs in a clean aircraft.
So, do you really believe a Rafale with 3-Large External Fuel Tanks and 4,000 lbs of External Stores with 4,528 lbs less internal fuel is going to have a better (longer) flight profile than a cleane F-35A. If, you do then I think you need to cut back ont he Medication!:rolleyes:
Only shows your lack of knowledge about Rafale which use 2000L external tanks + eventual (available for export, already flew with) CFTs
halloweene@Scooter. Gripen E with EFTs has a mission radius with 6 aam that is just over 800nm (702nm + 30 min on station).
Why would it be unrealistic that the Rafale could have the same range or better?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]220811[/ATTACH]
case closed 😉
halloweeneI wouldnt bring typhoon in as agressor, might disgust regular pilots winning too often…
halloweeneAre you confusing with LM?
halloweeneWhy wo canards?
halloweeneAbout BFM, not you, you have more sense ;). I dont know the exact figures of rabge in every config, i’m just like you trying to get as much info as i can… And i dont deny that stealth have evident advantages (and in fact from latest news i douc hear, Rafale MLU will be heavily biased towards more stealth).
Rafale shouldnt be as stealthy as F35, by far, but discretion was part of its design (semi recessed air intakes, saw tooths near everywhere, S ducts etc.). Remember what was in mind during its conception : (i)nuclear deterrence (so ability to deep penetration in heavily defended environments). (ii) air -defence/superirity over eastern Europe. (iii) asymetric warfare. Remember France has been involve in these types of conflicts nearly everytime(Chad etc) (iv) Maritime version.
With all these constraints (at the time USA werent able to design a maritimized stealth plane), Dassault choose a diff path, i dont know how many planes are able to followground at 600 knots / 100 feet. As a corollary, instead of opting to primary stealth, they opted for a very advanced EW suite able to redefine plane course depending on detected target, smart jamming, AND networkability etc.
Of coure, F35 will possess those qualities, then F4++ will get stealthier (or will control drones assensors from rear seat) etc. Cat and Mouse game. Only future will tell us which was the right way, but i’m absolutely sure that both are good for plane survivability.
halloweeneBIT i only answered to a trollish grunt about BFM capabilities of Rafale. No more.
Finally this analysis isnt so bad if ppl discuss about it is it? Next chapter to come, datalinks told me the author.
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