A corvette in North Atlantic waters say in mid winter ? Sorry no sale I don’t really know anyone that I hate that much that I could do that to.
Remember the little 1,000 ton Flower class corvettes that did precisely that, back in WWII? There were times when the weather was so bad that the big fleet destroyers had to turn back, but the corvettes were able to keep going.
Seakeeping is about a lot more than just size.
So?. You cant screen a carrier doing 25knts, on a run, with an RFA-style hull that can sustain 18 at best.
Is there room for an austere vessel that can do MIOPS and patrol taskings cheaper than current frigates?. Yes – many of us have long been clamouring for a real oceanic patrol vessel for exactly that purpose for the C3 requirement. Doesn’t mean we dont still need fleet capable escorts though.
It’s a question of priorities and affordability as well: what type of vessel is needed now, and can we afford it? A less sophisticated ship, carrying helicopters and boats and basic sensors and weapons, would be a lot more useful and affordable for the next ten years at least, than a very expensive high-end frigate. RN frigates very little of their time escorting carriers at 25 knots these days.
A couple of the Royal Navy’s high profile missions – anti-piracy off Somalia and the Caribbean Patrol – have recently been carried out by RFAs with helicopters and RHIBs embarked.
……
Jack E. Hammond
Btw> A few have noticed. But the pirates seem to be leaving most Muslim shipping alone. A Saudi tanker got seized and it was released without a ransom being paid. In addition, the Muslim nations in that area have a lot of patrol warships. Egypt especially. But all they send are token ships, that do very little. Something smells.
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That sounds like a racist comment, especially as it’s backed up by very little evidence.
On the other hand, the Royal Malaysian Navy has been active against the pirates recently: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/1/22/nation/7852232&sec=nation

Is it the case that the CN-235 is just a Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA), whereas the C-295 is an MPA that can also be configured for ASW and/or ASuW?
This Chilean C-295 looks good – imagine what it would look like in RN colours!

….. STOBAR takes up an insane amount room, so there is a limit to how small a STOBAR ship can be….
What’s ‘insane’ about this?
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Is this for real?
“Navy to buy new aircraft
Published on Tue Feb 22 13:07:21 GMT 2011
THE Royal Navy is looking to buy a fleet of maritime patrol aircraft for up to £1 billion just weeks after the Ministry of Defence scrapped the new Nimrod aircraft at a cost of £3.6 billion…..”
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/east-hampshire/navy_to_buy_new_aircraft_1_2437696
Indeed the Type 22B3 was always how they should of been built.
I quite like the idea of a similar size class lean manned with the large double hanger powered by Diesels. Drop the ASW fit as the Type 23 can do that and give it a point defence only capability with something like a couple of MK 49 mounts with RIM-116(which is pretty much doing the same job as the six cell Seawolf launcher), leave space for Harpoon but don’t fit as again the Type 23 do that as well as the embarked helicopter. 4.5 or 5 inch gun for NGS plus the usual collection of DS30. Finally a good communications and control fit as well as Artisan.
Sounds like the Danish Absalon class.
How long did it take the Russians to develop a STOBAR version of the MiG-29? What is the extent of the changes involved?
There seem to be four different types of aircraft either in use or under consideration for close air support work:
1. attack helicopter (e.g. AH-64)
2. fixed-wing turboprop (e.g. AT-6)
3. fixed-wing jet (e.g. A-10)
4. large gunship (e.g. AC-130)
Most of these aircraft carry the same types of targeting sensors, typically EO/IR/laser, and weapons, such as guns, rockets, guided missiles, and guided bombs.
Attack helicopters have yet to be tested in a high-intensity combat environment, and when they have faced serious ground fire, they tend to suffer. They are very expensive to acquire and to maintain and operate. Their VTOL advantage is rarely used, as they usually operate from airbases. They are slow.
Fixed-wing turboprops are relatively cheap to buy, maintain and operate. They are faster than attack helicopters, almost as fast as an A-10, but slower than fighters used for CAS (e.g. F-16). They have longer loiter endurance than jets, who can persist over the battlefield only by regular air-to-air refuelling. Their weapon load is typically less than a jet.
Fixed-wing jets is a category that has two subsets – aircraft designed for CAS, typically the A-10 and Su-25; and fast jets employed for CAS missions, such as F-16s or Mirages or Tornados. It is said that troops on the ground favour slower aircraft such as the A-10 for CAS, as they are more likely to be accurate in their attacks.
The large gunship is a specialist aircraft that is only operated by the US. It seems to be only operated at night, even in relatively permissive environments such as Afghanistan, which suggests it is very vulnerable.
So it seems to me that in deciding on the most suitable CAS aircraft, the nature of the conflict (a spectrum from top-end extreme intensity down to COIN policing) needs to be considered, as does the mission: the anti-tank mission is different from providing ‘flying artillery’ support to troops in contact. After that it’s the usual balancing of costs versus effectiveness.
And finally, I would hope that inter-Service rivalry between the US Army and the USAF won’t prevent a proper testing of the fixed-wing turboprop option, which appears to offer a great deal of savings on the cost side, while maintaining the ability to get the job done.
…..
I think for manned fast CAS in a dynamic combined weapons environment the A-10 is the definitive answer. And I think the Sikorsky X2 (or the “Raider”) will more be a replacement for the Apache/Blackhawk series, not so much for the A-10. But as long as the CAS assets are controlled by some far away (J)AOC with 24hrs lead time, and not by the ground combat element in direct contact with the enemy – forget about it.The LAAR programme, especially when favouring a single-prop, is a cynical bad joke, designed to make sure nothing comes of it.
Why are both fixed-wing and helicopter CAS aircraft required, when they appear to be doing the same job?
Why do you say the LAAR is a “bad joke”?
Does the type os CAS aircraft required not depend on the nature of the conflict?
25 were sold to Thailand, and the UK Defence Evaluation and Research Agency bought 12 as chase planes and flight test platforms. Prices were giveaway, apparently: saw one mention of $27,000 each for the Thai aircraft.
According to Wikipedia,
“Armament
Guns: 1× 27 mm (1.06 in) Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon in centreline gun pack w/120 rds or 1x 30 mm DEFA in centerline pod w/150 rds
Rockets: 2× Matra rocket pods with 18× SNEB 68 mm rockets each; 2× CRV7 rocket pods with 19× 70 mm rockets each
Missiles: 2× AIM-9 Sidewinders; 2× Matra Magic IIs; 2× AGM-65 Maverick;
Bombs: 2,500 kg (5,500 lb) of payload on five external hardpoints, including a variety of bombs (such as the Hunting BL755 cluster bombs) or Drop tanks for extended range.”
1. Anything to be learned from comparing the A-10 with the Su-25?

2. Does this – LAAR (Light Attack Armed Reconnaissance) – constitute one of the directions in which 21st century CAS is heading?
http://defense-update.com/products/l/laar_180909.html

But what can a fixed-wing CAS aircraft do that, e.g. an Apache helicopter couldn’t?
Shirane class.
Landed: OPS-12, WM-25, TACTASS, Mk42 x 2, ASROC, Mk29, Phalanx x2.
Installed:
– FCS-3
– SONAR2087
– OTO127LW ‘A’ Position.
– ‘B’ position Mk42 deckhouse retained. Modified for 6 x Sylver A35 (24 VL Mica)
– Raised deckhouse created on foredeck directly aft of B position for 4 x Mk41 Tactical modules (8 VLA, 24 SM-2blkIV/SM-3)
– Millenium mounts x 4 situated on Phalanx pedestals and port and starboard beam on hangar roof. Individual director elements.Airgroup 3 x NH90 FFH with FLASH, LWT and NSM capability.
Nice ship, but you might want to replace the steam turbines too?