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shiplover

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  • in reply to: The 8000t "harrier carrier" concept? #2079992
    shiplover
    Participant

    If memory serves me right it was 350 million Dollars.The price of PdA is unknown to me. I don’t know the exchange rate of pesetas to Dollars in 1988.
    In a book about spanish aircraft carriers “Los portaaviones Espanoles” I read that there was much delay in the construction. They changed the Combat System and relocated it. The island was changed and if you compare this design with the Sea Control Ships there are many minor changes. Building time was 9 years. Together with all the problems a yard has when entering a new area such as building an aircraft carrier I can easily imagine that PdA cost around 500 million Dollars – but I don’t know. Nonetheless I believe building something like Invincible would have cost a lot more than the PdA.
    PdA is said to be of outstanding seaworthyness. The stern obviously was raised one deck.
    I just added the drawings I made of how I think the gas turbine powered versions have evolved during the design process in the US.

    Is there any chance to get the 150m Incat version – as a picture?

    in reply to: The 8000t "harrier carrier" concept? #2080153
    shiplover
    Participant

    This is also a very nice Harrier Carrier!

    The Principe de Asturias. A bit large, but probably not very expensive

    in reply to: Ok who's bored (part2) #2084759
    shiplover
    Participant

    The light cruiser is not Yubari. Yubari had one trunked funnel like the Heavy Cruisers. It is one of the 3 groups of 5.500 ts cruisers.

    1. group: Kuma class: Had thicker funnels
    2. group: Nagara class 3 thin funnels: strike!
    3. group.Sendau class 4 thin funnels. wrong

    2. group had Nagara, Isuzu, Yura, Natori, Kinu, Abukuma.
    Kino had two white stripes on the funnel, Isuzu and Abukuma had no white stripes (on photos I have) If the number of the stripes remained constant – and if the signatures of the photos I have are correct this leaves

    Nagara, Yura and Natori.

    in reply to: Spanish and other navies Never where ships #2091888
    shiplover
    Participant

    The model photo of MConrads is a scan from Naval Forces 4/95. The vessel is described as Batiment d’Intervention Polyvalent by DCN. It should have had 12 Harriers, 7 ready for take of and 5 parked. The Sky Jump would have had reduced the take of spots from 5 to 6.

    in reply to: BSAC 220 wishes Happy New Year 2008 #2093487
    shiplover
    Participant

    Hi Merlock!

    You put it right: This design rocks! While “reconstructing” it, it became some sort of “wet dream” of mine ;-). In a relaunch of this design I would propose the following changes: two diesel generator rooms with an electric motor for one screw each seperated by one or two compartments. I would add one gas turbine generator on the port side stern to have the exhausts out of the approach path of incoming aircraft. This could reduce the island size. I would add new planar Radars on the island.
    I could imagine that one day we see a similar design from china or brazil as first carrier or a follow on of Sao Paulo.

    in reply to: BSAC 220 wishes Happy New Year 2008 #2095503
    shiplover
    Participant

    Thanks for the compliments – it was me.

    Here are the sources I had + drawings of Principe de Asturias which I think is a great ship.
    I added the cutaway drawing I made encuraged by your kind comments 😉

    in reply to: New Russian ships in shipbucket: Kirov, Udaloy and Krivaks #2038967
    shiplover
    Participant

    Thanks a lot for these great drawings!

    Kirov is a real monster isn’t it?

    Anybody wondering about how an american counterpart (newbuilding) whould have looked like?

    in reply to: NATO Frigate Replacement for the 1990s (NFR-90) #2039537
    shiplover
    Participant

    Thanks MConrads!

    It is nice to see how ships I barely remember “come to life”.

    in reply to: Vertical Support Ship #2040850
    shiplover
    Participant

    As the discussion about this design seems to have come to an end I would like to add the ultimate VSS to the collection. It has integrated some of the proposals I received. As a special christmas greeting there is a strange radar of unknown type above the bridge. 😉

    in reply to: Vertical Support Ship #2042167
    shiplover
    Participant

    VSS III size

    I would like to add some information about the size of the ship we are discussing.
    25 de Mayo: 19896 tons full load (Janes 89/90)
    VSS III: 29130 full load (Friedman aircraft carriers)
    Foch: 32.780 full load (Janes 89/90).

    Add some blisters (as was done to Foch) and they have the same size.:)
    So we are talking about a carrier CVS of Foch size, with a larger landing strip and more powerful catapults. The ship would have a less but more powerful aircraft then Foch.

    I think this design is ok if one is to accept Foch as beeing ok.

    in reply to: Vertical Support Ship #2042445
    shiplover
    Participant

    VSS CTOL

    I did some detailing – shadows, people etc. and a second version with deckedge lifts only.
    I must admit that I prefer the lift at the stern because of a raugh weather capability. But there is no daubt that the lift should be in the up position and hangar doors shut during landing operation to avoid two level landings 😉

    in reply to: Vertical Support Ship #2042582
    shiplover
    Participant

    I am happy about these discussions and that some of you seem to have the ideas I had.
    I would like to make some comments about some of the contributions.
    I believe the decklayout I chose is very close to the one that was actualy discussed. It is a mixture of the drawings I added to this post.

    The other layout which esp has made came to my mind as an evolution of this design. The ship should have some additional waterline beam. The deck edge elevators would be close to the water as they are in CdG, as they would have been in the french carrier design of the seventies PA 75 and as it would have been in BSAC 220. This could have been a problem for atlantic operations. Note that the reverse angle carrier of the Naval engineer journal has inboard lifts. Perhaps some anti rolling system as CdG has would have been necessary.

    The catapults I chose are my imagination. I chose one bigger and one smaller C13 catapult to avoid interference during launching operations.

    I chose gas turbine propulsion to make the design close to the original VSS III which should have had 4 GT. Perhaps a steam propulsion as the CVV would have had with 140.000 hp would have been a good alternative – probabably making the ship somewhat larger.

    The ship would by no means have been ready around 1975. This is the date of the design. The first US ships would have been ready around 1980/2. This would have been too late for a Falkland scenario. I admit that I was thinking of a 25 de Mayo VSS CTOL against a VSS Invincible VTOL. But this is impossible. But it could have been an alternative for replacements in the middle of the 80ies for the Colossus carriers in Argentinia, Brasil and Australia. Juan Carlos would have been a nice ship too. And perhaps the spanish designers had something like that in mind when checking alternatives which finally lead to PdA.

    I have a question to those with practical experience with carriers: Would the reverse angle have caused problems?

    in reply to: Vertical Support Ship #2043073
    shiplover
    Participant

    CTOL VSS III

    The drawing should be to scale at least I did my best to do so.
    The VSS should have been 717 feet long.
    The propulsion of my design should be gas turbines as the VSS III in the VTOL version should have had gas turbines. So this vessel should have had an auxilliary boiler for the two catapults ( X 07: I have drawn two – one smaller and one larger). Tiddles you are right – the antennae should be in the down position.
    I am still working on the drawing so in the next days I will release another drawing with minor changes.

    Have a nice week

    shiplover

    in reply to: Vertical Support Ship #2043163
    shiplover
    Participant

    VSS III in CTOL version

    I have read that there were also plans of VSS III in a CTOL version.

    This is how I think it might have looked like with Hornets on board.

    in reply to: Vertical Support Ship #2043656
    shiplover
    Participant

    SCS

    Hi European!

    The drawing Wanshan posted is the drawing published in Friedmans US Aircraft Carrier book page 355. It is the design in the version of 1974. This is the one I used to draw the vessel with the number 138. As Obi Wan explained the design was pimped up by Bazan and was made a very fine vessel.
    In addition to what Obi Wan mentioned Bazan added a small “take home” engine which could be moved out from the buttom of the ship.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 90 total)