FBWIn case anyone was wondering about the weight of the F135:
The F135 engine weighs 3,750 pounds and is 18.3 feet long.
Makes the weight estimates made over the years laughable (5,000+ lbs)
FBW30 would surpass all analogues in terms of specific weight, that would be another useful indication, if we only had a reliable value for F135 as probably the best foreign competitor.
Interesting aside, while looking for an article about the time needed to swap out the F135 engine, I came across the actual weight from a page regarding engine maintainers. I cannot relocate it, or Hill afb realized the error and removed the information.
Needless to say I was surprised at the weight (cannot remember), but suffice to say that the estimates on wikipedia etc are off, way, way off. The engine does not weigh anything near 2,400kg.
Got it:
he F135 engine weighs 3,750 pounds and is 18.3 feet long
FBWLet’s keep it news, gentleman.
FBWNow we get second hand stories via defense bloggers like Aroor (whom in general, I like his reporting) that the new story is: Varthaman’s radio last radio transmission was “visual and locked” and that he fired an R-73 at a fleeing F-16 while his controllers were yelling at him to turn back and his RWR was blaring. He subsequently saw the missile hit the F-16 moments before the AMRAAM took out his MiG-21.
BRA-VO… Forget Topgun II- this is best action movie plot of all time. Is it too much to ask for a vague lie backed up by false evidence, this is over the top.
Edit- if all this isn’t surreal enough, I just saw a response of mine from the locked Indian Air Force thread posted on Twitter. Even worse, it must have been copied before I edited it for spelling. So it makes me look illiterate.. more so than usual.
FBWI am with you Teer…a correct analysis…..there remains no Qs of a IAF pilot casualty go unreported especially by the NOK…the law of the land nd accountability of the armed forces to the nation means nothing such serious can be hidden from public glare..our only damaged pilot was happily back with us.
Completely incorrect… As an outside observer, I can tell you that the Indian Gov and Media has not established itself as some paragon of truth vis a vis the Pakistani Gov and narrative:
1. Multiple outside analysis (not just “Western”) call into question the Indian Gov and Media’s statements about the efficacy and target of the strike- particularly compelling is the Western Intel officer quoted as saying that was common knowledge the JeM training camp had been moved. Considering the Pakistan denies JeM training camps in their country, it is hard to argue that is some “Pro-Pakistani” narrative.
2. The “hero of the hour” narrative on Varthaman started before he was even exchanged. When he was exchanged, his statement subsequently buried in the Indian media was “I was trying to lock onto a target” when his aircraft crossed the LoC and was shot down. Conveniently, his claim has been “confirmed” by the IAF based on what? He certainly didn’t say it.
3. The Indian government and Pakistani government have spread false information. Pakistan has to explain the denial of F-16 involvement (most likely they were trying to avoid US scrutiny), but it’s still a falsehood. India has explain why certain ministers were claiming “hundreds killed”, why the media parroted false strike claims.
Both sides have aircraft shootdown claims that have not a shred of evidence: India claiming an F-16, and Pakistan claiming a “2nd Indian aircraft”, repeated as an Su-30.
And no, the IAF does not have some credibility advantage over the PAF when it comes to making claims without any physical proof, audio, even a coherent narrative of the shootdown.
(I would have certainly believed the Indian Gov and IAF was more credible prior to this event, that presumption of plausibility has been torn down by the successive falsehoods spread by the Indian Gov and media).
Bottom line:
India did send a message that they are willing to strike within Pakistan, irregardless of what actual strike hit.
The subsequent counter led to one confirmed MiG-21 lost. Pakistan likely shot AMRAAM from F-16’s at targets in India.
Both India and Pakistan have uncorroborated kill claims.
The media was weaponized by both countries, both for international purposes, and internal consumption (with the added twist of being used against opposition parties in India facing upcoming elections).
FBWMore Rafale fun in India:
An FIR against Modi is now inescapable.” Surjewala said an FIR should be filed against Modi in the wake of the report of the Indian negotiation team on the pricing of the deal, which has been placed in the public domain. The price of the 36 aircraft is €8,460 million or Rs 63,450 crore, and not what is claimed by Prime Minister Modi and his government which is €7,890 million or Rs 59,000 crore
FBWfirst flown in 2008, the SM3 represented a non-exportable “Flanker” version brought to life out of the Kremlin’s desire to support KAZ (then known as KnAAPO, for Komsomolsk-upon-Amur Aircraft Production Association) at a time when the factory was converting from the Classic (Su-27) to the Advanced (Su-35) “Flanker.” The Su-27SM3 was viewed as an interim model using the older airframe with newer onboard systems and mission equipment.
FBWIt will be a great advancement, above all or certain type of planes or missions, so I expect that about all the main producers would head trough it.
It will be for aircraft that can be modified or designed with an engine bay large enough to incorporate three airstreams. Designers aren’t going to scale this technology for an F414 sized engine very soon.
One small caveat, as people have been saying VCE technology isn’t new, the YF-120 had variable area bypass ejectors, basically valves that could direct more airstream into the core or bypass duct. The AETP engines add annular duct third stream, very high pressure ratio compressor. It isn’t just about variable cycle, the engine program is testing new materials that are lighter and run at very high temps.
Another point, many like to focus on the potential increased power, but the USAF is more interested in the range improvements and extra cooling potential. Both the F-35 and the F-22 have pushed right to the edge of current thermal management technologies in LO aircraft. Without AETP cooling advances, future growth in the F-35 or sixth generation avionics and DEW wouldn’t be possible. The added benefit is that it will remove some of the supersonic low altitude time limitations on the F-35 as well.
FBWAs i said it is ONE indicator. Listen to the interview on Rafale thread. It flies at 200 Km/h (albeit not recommended).
No, it really isn’t. The low approach speed of the Rhino and Rafale are a result of the requirements for landing on a carrier. Land based aircraft can approach at a much lower angle of attack and higher speed (which is standard and safer). Both the F-35C and Rhino use large ailerons in full down position to increase wing camber therefore AoA, and the Rafale’s nose high landing approach AoA isn’t a positive. That’s one reason the FCS has auto control of throttle and AoA on landing.
By comparison the AoA of the F-35A is between 8-13 degrees on landing, recently a pilot was stating approach speed after heritage flight was 150 knots. Max AoA on landing is 13 degrees.
The F-35A and C have different control surfaces and flap scheduling. Look at the A landing then the C. Just because the “C” has ailerons that can be deployed in a full down position for landing doesn’t make it more capable in high AoA maneuvers, for one there are airspeed restrictions. Basically, your trying to equate landing flap scheduling (or approach AoA) with high angle of attack performance. Lastly,
It flies at 200 Km/h
do you see the problem here? Do you know the stall speed of the F-35A?
FBWhttps://breakingdefense.com/2019/03/red-flag-2019-first-great-power-air-war-test-in-years/
“On the last week of a Red Flag exercise we really throw everything we have at the Blue Force and replicate the toughest adversary possible, because that’s what they will face in a high-end fight against a ‘near peer’ competitor,”
FBWVery interesting interview with many data. supercruise mach 1.4, 0to 55k feet in one min. etc.
I posted that two pages back, though who can blame you for not wading through what’s become of this thread. Actually posted it thinking you would find it interesting.
FBWSo what? Best way to lose energy. F-35 (apart from C) is unable to fly slowly out of very high AoA due to small wings. Eurocanards or F-18 can. EOS
In your history of making silly, unsubstantiated statements, this one is my favorite. The F-35A has been demonstrating lately the very thing you claim it can’t do. The very fact that you use the approach speed of the Rafale and F-35A as some sort of evidence would be laughable if it weren’t a bit pathetic.
Just like many of your comments on the F-35, these last few aren’t going to age well.
While I am a firm hater of the youtube airshow evidence committee. I just love that you wrote the above one week after the demo routine video shows exactly what you are saying the F-35A can’t do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pBvmCO1aUo
10:10 on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCEfMRiXSJM
Wait Hallow! you said it can’t! Please make it stop doing what Halloweene claims it can’t!!!
O.K. enough sarcasm for one day.
FBWObviously the injured pilot is the PAF pilot who we know now was likely lynched and perhaps no more but would Pakistan admit this fact or stay in denial ?
Years from now, think tanks and historians will be using this event as a case study in the impact of social media and generation of stories in the “fake news” era (at least I hope this is just a brief interlude from fact based analysis). Honestly, it is both terrifying and fascinating to watch the respective governments “spin” the events for home consumption while the rest of the world looks on incredulously.
Long way of saying, stop posting or repeating stories sourced from a sole social media page.
FBWAll KPPs for the F-35 are in the A2G config so there is no reason to assume this metric is not also A2G.
That I’m not so sure is correct. The short answer is that full envelope is available whenever the aircraft is at or below basic flight design gross weight (according to Semper Lighting CLAWS article) What is clear is DOT&E report states that B/C were to reach design G limit with full internal fuel. The F-35A was stated to be capable 9G with full internal weapons and fuel (Airforce Magazine). I will dig up the pilot interview (Combat aircraft magazine; March?) with the pilot interview about 9G limit after burning off some fuel.
Basic flight design gross weight is usually full fuel, pilot, payload, etc. Loading 4 AMRAAM with full internal fuel may be in excess of BFDGW (which isn’t listed). Either way, with something close to a full AAM load and fuel, a pretty impressive 18k lbs of fuel, it doesn’t have envelope restrictions. But I agree with Scorpion, does not state with 2x 2000lb class weapons anywhere in official docs, even in original specifications from Bowman paper.
Now the one exception was Flynn who did state in an interview “”full of bombs, full of fuel, full of missiles”.:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wg2HiLFg4Ac
@ scorpion82- there are a couple of major differences to carrying the loads internally:
the weapons are only exposed to inertial loads, none from airstream. Also, the launchers (not pylons) can be attached to the aircraft’s bulkhead internal structure and not to wings (ok, many aircraft have centerline pylons, and some have conformal hardpoints…..)
FBWHa, was just gonna write the exact same thing spud. It may not be full/full. But they’ve stated full internal weapons load specifically several times. Recent article, forget which aviation magazine, had pilot stating limits with full fuel below 9G, until some fuel burned off. The B/C can reach their g-limits or 7.5/7 with full fuel and weapons (stated in previous DOT&E).
Sign In
