..unlike you who has flown everything from Su-35S to F-35, I assume… 😎

Ah, the emoticon. First off, I won’t address the airshow thing I’d rather give you enough rope to string yourself up on that comment.

Second, I would not claim to be an expert on or flown (I am not/was not a military pilot, never claimed otherwise) “everything from the Su-35S to F-35”. I would claim to have a good grasp of the performance of various legacy fighters like: F-16, F-15, F-18, and a rough idea on how the F-35 compares to them.

Well the USAF have been around from both Turkey, Iraq and other nearby countries.
We have the F-15, F-22. We have SA with their F-15’s
We have Israel with their assets.

And the Russians are not intimidated.. Or maybe they are..
But Surely when the Turkish AF get their first F-35! The Russians will feel intimidated..
Don’t you see how silly this is?

Then don’t make silly sarcastic comments, obviously any nation would be none too pleased when neighbors (with whom they have heightened tensions as of late) acquire a new, capable fighter. You can have your views of the F-35, just don’t assume that the RuAF shares your views on the F-35’s capabilities, most likely, they know better.

Yes the Russians will feel very intimidated..

The RuAF has a level of competency and I’m sure those doing Technical Intelligence for the Ministry of Defense have a better picture of F-35 capabilities than here on a forum. I’m going to go out on a very long limb and guess that they are none to pleased with the idea of a LO strike fighter proliferating on their border.

The arrogance by some (not all) of you is simply astounding to me though I suppose it shouldn’t be at this point.

Quick show of hands……..who here has actually flown an airplane? As in ever? I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again…..you don’t know just what it is you don’t know. You don’t know HOW MUCH you don’t know. Every time I leave terra firma, I come back down having learned something new, and often I’m surprised I didn’t know that said “something” sooner.

I’ve not flown the F-35 myself, but I can tell based upon the various responses I’ve read that some of you have no earthly idea what you are talking about, and you are simply reading things you find on the internet as proof of your “facts”…I know this because a long time ago I used to be guilty of it. I thought I knew way more than I did, and I look back now and realize how wrong I was on many occasions. Don’t fall into that trap. Admit your commentary is mostly conjecture, and perhaps try and conjure up an educated debate as opposed to baseless claims that have no basis in fact.

.

Seems a bit harsh. The forum’s current/former members run the gamut from- enthusiasts, former military personnel (Naval, JTAC, etc), defense journalists, bloggers, defense analysts, engineers, PR reps, and so forth. The beauty is that participation is by choice, (well for most). Some come on, read and never post, I was one of them for years as it seemed stupid. Now? I travel often and find it a great way to kill some downtime.

I can’t make your aero education. But, if you misunderstood me, buffeting is not some form of trashed airflows.

You’ll have to excuse me. I don’t understand what you are saying in either part above. Most likely a language barrier, if you would not mind, please clarify.

Buffeting occurs on most airfoils with the transient effects occurring around it. For example, the amount of boundary layer separation will vary with speed and AoA and those two values are linked. So an oscillatory phenomenon occurs. This is what cause your plane to buffet. When and how strong it occurs are characteristics of your wing AND flight regime. Hence why pilots can use it to assess where they are in the perf envelope and what they can do and cannot.

The flow separation that the F-35 is experiencing is common, BUT both reports mention it. It is obvious that the buffeting in High AoA/High G maneuvers are more pronounced than the pilots are used to. The F-18 E/F has/had a similar issue. Both the Super and the F-35C experienced higher than normal buffeting and TRO (a more serious issue). With the F-35A, it sounds manageable. The F-15 also exhibited strong buffeting in high AoA. The real question is: does the flow separation inhibit the flight envelope? The test pilot from the leaked report and the Norwegian pilot seemed to be in agreement that the buffet was not limiting, and did give feedback that the aircraft was approaching lift limits. Again, is the buffeting a serious issue? In this case it does not seem to be, but pronounced buffet is not a favorable characteristic. What I was alluding to in the above post about the Super Hornet was the wing strake/wing fence to address buffeting and TRO (if you look at a Growler, it it very pronounced). The F-35C had the leading edge flap modified to address similar issue. What is also interesting is that buffet is pretty common in fighters with twin tails. The trade off is that a single vertical stab, may not have this issue, but will also not have the directional stability in high AoA.

If you are interested, here is the Nasa paper addressing the issue: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20040110952.pdf

The F16 Flight laws keep the plane out of those zone as they constitute a domain where the plane is less efficient and is not linear. The result is like a fully assisted steering wheel. You don’t have any feedback from the road. What many of us needs.

The F-16 has an AoA limiter because it has a pronounced pitch up at AoA above 25.5 degrees and enters a deep stall without warning. That is abrupt flow separation, definitely also not a desirable characteristic.

But boasting about buffeting as a quality, seriously ?

I thought that was odd too. About the only thing that would be “advantageous” would be that the pilot has clear feedback that the aircraft is reaching lift limits. Well, US designers are now 2 for 3 in having serious buffet in high AoA/G in recent fighters.

& the best cars are those that corner the fastest. Case in point.

Anyway you know that what you are saying is bull. Many planes have demonstrated controlability at much higher AoA than their operational limit.

Nic

Perfectly worthless analogy. Corner speed in aircraft is the lowest airspeed the aircraft can generate max g minimum radius turn.