MD-80So they will be sending the B717 to LHR?
Hello,
yes! Blue1 plans to send their 717s to LHR.
Regards:)
MD-80Yes you are right that Lufthansa operated also at least two A300-600´s with “Express”-stickers.
I don´t think that Lufthansa Express was a separately registered company but I know that Lufthansa hired crews separately and these employees were exclusively rostered only on “Lufthansa Express” flights. So flight attendants worked longer (like six to eight legs a day). I think that the general reorganisation of Lufthansa (until 1994 mainly state-owned) with new labour-contracts and generally new conditions reduced the costs considerably and “Lufthansa Express” was no longer really needed to reduce costs.
Lufthansa was in very bad shape in these times. The huge losses and high operating costs lead to order cancellations and the decision to streamline the fleet. So the A310-200 were phased out and replaced by the A321-100. The B737-fleet was also reduced to two models – the 737-300 and 737-500.
The B737-400 left the fleet in 1996 and the classic B737-200Adv. later in 1997.
The B737-200Adv. were replaced by A319´s.
Yes after the closure of Lufthansa Express the aircraft with “Express”-stickers were flying normally within Lufthansa.
So the aircraft were flying like other aircraft and the title “Express” was overdue.
After the 49% take-over of eurowings by Lufthansa the operations at eurowings were streamlined.
The charter-operations of eurowings (with five A319´s with 142 seats each) were abandoned and the A319´s went on to become the basic fleet for germanwings. eurowings is now marketed as “Lufthansa Regional”, mainly flying ATR´s, CRJ´s and BAe146´s.
In fact Lufthansa Regional is now the biggest user of the BAe146 and Avroliner(including the fleets of Lufthansa Cityline and Air Dolomiti) in Europe and after considering a replacement for these relatively fuel-thirsty aircraft they´ve decided to stick with these aircraft and renewed leases and took more arcraft.
germanwings is (in my opinion) not a “real” low-cost airline. germanwings is part of Lufthansa and Lufthansa uses germanwings indirectly and directly to compete against other airlines. The fleet of gemanwings is partly leased from Lufthansa and there are also crews that are in reality Lufthansa employees.
germanwings flies (or flew?) A320´s leased from Lufthansa and flying with Lufthansa configuration (CY150). This is “luxury” a real low-cost operator can not offer.
Without the assistance of Lufthansa the project germanwings would have been a failure.
The real chance for Lufthansa is that they can transfer some routes to germanwings – routes that don´t generate much yield.
And Lufthansa can use germanwings as a “weapon” for their own pilots! Lufthansa can claim that germanwings could take over much more routes of Lufthansa if the pilots of Lufthansa want to have more salaries.
germanwings is surely a good project to look for cost cuttings for Lufthansa itself. germanwings leased two Boeing 717´s from AeBal (SpanairLink) and this was influenced by Lufthansa because Lufthansa was really interested in the B717 as a replacement for the BAe146/Avro at Lufthansa Regional and as a possible replacement of the B737-500 (maybe transfered to a subsidiary to reduce the costs). Lufthansa is searching for a longer time for a replacement for their B737-300/-500 but right now there are no official plans and Lufthansa seems to be generally pleased with the B737-300 but not really pleased with the B737-500 simply because the B737-500 costs as much as the B737-500 but carries fewer passengers.
germanwings itself decided to stick with the A319 and will take over some examples of USAirways I think. Right know there are some aircraft leased from Lufthansa (Lufthansa reduced their A319-fleet from 20 to 14) and the hope for B717-fans to see “a huge order by Lufthansa Group” busted but the circumstances concerning the Boeing 717 is a differnt story…
Concerning Lufthansa Express I know that I have some broshures but I don´t know where 🙁
Let´s see…
Take care and thank you
MD-80I remember that the Lufthansa Express concept was the operation of 28 aircraft (B737 and A310 I think) on purely domestic services within Germany with operations starting in October 1992.
Flight Crews were hired and some crews transfered from Lufthansa with lower salaries payed.
There were two models from with flight attendants could choose from.
They were based in Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich and Berlin and were able to work “half-time” or “full-time”.
Onboard service was very much reduced but the “Gate Buffet” was retained.
All aircraft were operated independently from mainline Lufthansa and Lufthansa hoped to generate cost-savings through higher utilisation and lower paid crews.
This did not come to fruition and Lufthansa Express was re-introduced into Lufthansa 1994 I think with all employees transfered to Lufthansa.
Later Lufthansa discussed another version of a low-cost subsidiary with the working-title “Lufthansa Lite”.
These plans were abandoned but through the take-over of eurowings Lufthansa took the A319´s of eurowings to form germanwings (using the name “German Wings” bought after the deminse of this MD-80-operator) to have their own low cost adventure.
I will maybe look for more infos…
Thanks
MD-80The huge MD-82-fleet “saved” Alitalia for many years and Alitalia is on the other hand acting like an airline with thick pockets.
Alitalia is sadly one of the big european airlines who did not learned from the painful lessons. Alitalia is reacting very slowly to changing conditions.
As long as an airline like Alitalia is in the position to take new B777´s and to phase out MD-11´s etc. the airline is simply not acting like an airline with huge financial problems.
Alitalia is currently the biggest operator of the MD-80 outside the USA (followed by SAS and Iberia) and it´s simply crazy that Boeing wanted to place new B737´s there a few yars ago.
Alitalia was once one of the most loyal costumers of McDonnell Douglas the DC-9 and MD-80 did a very good job.
Sadly Boeing is not really supporting MD-80-ops and/or offering modifications like a new hushkit.
But that´s another story…
Thank you
MD-80Member “EGNM” ist right in claiming that “SAS have recently had one of the most interesting short haul fleets in the world, operating A321, B736 and MD80/90 series simultainiously”.
But this is a huge problem at SAS and looking at the flight ops at SAS today it´s operationally not very wise to operate so many types of aircraft.
It´s no longer the “old” SAS managed by Jan Carlzon. SAS once operated a very streamlined fleet mainly based on the DC-9 and MD-80.
The younger management at SAS changed so much and now the CEO left and works now for another airline which also now has a very diversified fleet-structure.
SAS seems to be not very happy with their B737-600. In 2001 there were indications by SAS to phase out all B737-600´s. This is purely a fatal blow by the launch-costumer of this variant.
Maybe SAS did a huge “mistake” when ordering the B737-600.
McDonnell Douglas shaped their MD-95 around the requirements of SAS (these topic could fill many pages). The MD-95 (B717) offers the qualities of the MD-series but Boeing was not willing to enhance the sales of the B717 (this could fill a book).
The MD-95 was perfectly suited for SAS as a replacement for their DC-9´s and to supplement their MD-80´s and MD-90´s.
The “old” SAS (with eurowhite-livery) was a successful time and now?
SAS made so many things that were unlogical and forced the build-up of a “flying show”. It´s simply uneconomical to operate B737-600´s and A319´s.
Thank you!
MD-80There are rumours that Iberia could transfer their MD-80´s to a “subsidiary” (even the five MD-87´s) leased to Spanair.
Iberia never encountered severe headache with their MD-80´s and I simply love those wonderfully designed aircraft in the classic livery of Iberia.
The charme of the MD-80 thrills me everytime.
The order for the A318 by Iberia is rather strange. The empty weight of the A318 is very much higher than an empty MD-80! The A318 is (I think) in no way really suited for shorthaul-routes. The A318 is (in it´s current configuration) only a 100-seater because of it´s size but not operationally.
The A318 is a dubble-shrink of the A320 and this can´t be the wisest solution for an aircraft looking like a 100-seater.
The MD-87 can not be purely claimed as a shortened MD-80. It´s in another way a stretched DC-9-40 and only a little bit smaller than the DC-9-50 with all refinements of the MD-80.
Because the MD-80series is based on the DC-9-10, every variant of the DC-9 (except the DC-9-20) and MD-80 are stretched versions of this baseline-model.
And the decision of Iberia in December 1987 to order 17 MD-87´s (a follow-on order for 7 more MD-87´s came later) was based on Iberia´s very good experience with their DC-9´s.
Thank you very much
MD-80Yes member “paulc” is right that Iberia will phase out their B757´s.
This was maybe first mentioned in interviews with Iberia managers in 2000 or 2001 when asked about the future shape of the IB-fleet.
Sad to hear it because I like to see B757´s in IB-colours…
Ironically there was a interview with a manager at Iberia in May 2004 or so and at this interview the manager said that Iberia plans to operate their MD-80´s “for at least another ten years”. This personally thrilled me (look at my username:-)) and there were rumours that Iberia could take all five MD-88´s of Onur Air (one was leased from 2003 until 2005) to finally expand their MD-80-fleet to 42 aircraft with (in MD-80-terms) young airframes (all examples for Onur Air were manufactured in 1997).
The B757 is surely a very good aircraft in it´s category but Iberia wants to standardize on the A321 in this capacity-range.
Thank you 🙂
MD-80Yes, you are right that Iberia has a varied fleet but the plan was clear and currently the “real” fleet includes “only” A319/320/321, A340, B747/757 and MD-80. For some time Iberia had also A300`s, B727´s and DC-9´s and DC-10´s operating alongside newer aircraft.
The B747 is on it´s way out and in this shape Iberia has a far more streamlined fleet than Air France or Lufthansa.
I think it was and it is sometimes the fleetplanning of each airline that culminates in such fleets. Some airlines were once very cautious about operating a vey streamlined fleet such as SAS (DC-9/MD-80/B767 at one time) or Finnair (DC-9/MD-80/MD-11).
The original official plan of Iberia for their MD-80 was to combine the MD-87 and MD-88-fleets together and to transfer them to purely domestic routes. The MD-87 was intended to replace the remaining DC-9´s operated by Aviaco.
Reality showed that the MD-87/-88 that they were used domestically but also very much internationally.
Personally I like it to see different types of aircraft logically building up a fleet.
Everbody will tell me that a common fleet will reduce costs but there are some airlines who ar claiming that a particular aircraft is sometimes better suited for a specific spectrum and it makes sense to operate a different type.
Look at (sadly defunct) Swissair: they once operated a very varied fleet when they flew Fokker 100, MD-81, A310, MD-11 and B747-300. This was a intended mix…
Flying five types while being a relatively small airline may not be the best solution but generally we can say that they used the right and best suited aircraft for each of the categories.
This does not mean that only the Fokker 100 is the best 100-seater etc. but maybe for Swissair and I believe that the Fokker 100 is better suited for shorthaul-work than the B737-600 etc…
Swissair wanted to operate the Fokker 100 (far more cheaper) by Crossair but this was not possible. Crossair introduced BAe146´s on their own and Swissair reduced their Fokker 100-order by eliminating the options. On the other hand this explains why Swissair never ordered the MD-87 like Austrian Airlines. Swissair wanted to operate such a type much more cheaper by cheaper pilots but never could manage to arrange to operate a shorter MD-87 with cheaper pilots than the pilots flying the bigger MD-81.
Swissair officially claimed that the MD-87 is not really suitable for european routes and to heavy. The reality showed that most MD-87´s went to european carriers (for example Austrian, Finnair, Iberia, Aero Lloyd, Transwede, CTA) and most A319´s are heavier than MD-87´s.
At Iberia the fleet was partly also shaped due to financial problems. On the one hand there was demand for more flights but Iberia was from time to time not allowed to buy or order new aircraft in the mid-90ties.
This was part of financial help given by the EU.
So Iberia was only able to expand through leased aircraft such as more B757 and B737´s from Air Europa, even TriStars etc. and they re-introduced their A300´s in 1995 after phasing them out in 1994 or so.
The situation improved and in 1998 Iberia laid out a plan in which until 2003 most parts of the fleet are renewed with all B727´s, DC-10´s, DC-9´s and A300´s being replaced.
It´s interesting to see numbers offered by IATA etc. about the typical opeating-costs of aircraft and there you can see that a MD-80 is not really muac more expensive to operate than a A320 etc..
But it´s clear to see there that the B737-800 is far more economical than the A320 (and logically the MD-80) but my opinion is that most aircraft-types can be operated economically but the airline must be willing and in the situation to operate them economically. The Fokker 100 is very often claimed as very efficient but American Airlines phased them out very quickly partly because the pilots were simply to expensive to operate this rather small aircraft.
So at American Airlines the smallest aircraft is the MD-80 and any smaller aircraft would encounter problems.
And it´s clear to see that there are airlines with very modern fleets who were much more successful in the past than currently and it´s to simple to claim this always to the difficult situation after 9/11.
Many airlines bought fleets because they wanted and not because they needed.
Some airlines switched within a few years from Boeing to Airbus vice versa.
Manufacturers are selling aircraft to airlines who are not financially in the situation to buy aircraft and then the manufacturers are getting nervous.
For me it´s sometimes very strange to see the steps taken by airlines and this is topped by new liveries which are simply horrible and sometimes could be used for totally different things (like aftershave or sweets) and are no longer associated with an Airline. At some airlines the logo is only 25% visible and the viewer has to imagine the rest.
I am half german/half japanese and the best example of a horrible livery (for me) is JAL, The well-known “Tsuru” (crane) is no longer, replaced ba a boring partly-sun. I just can not understand what improvment is visible.
Oh god, this is another topic 🙂
Thank you vey much!
MD-80Regarding Iberia´s MD-80-fleet it´s difficult to get information about their future. Officially all 37 MD-87/-88´s will be phased out but but on the other hand there are rumours that Ibeia could use their MD-80´s otherwise for their services. Most MD-80´s a Ibeia are owned and five MD-87´s are on operating-leases and these five MD-87´s will leased by Spanair from Iberia.
Right now Ibera is the biggest user of MD-87´s in the world and the biggest operator of the MD-88 outside USA.
All MD-80´s at Iberia are relatively young airframes because Iberia was a relatively late costumer of the MD-80 ordering 17 MD-87 (later 7 more) in December 1987 for delivery in 1990/91. The MD-88´s were originally flown by Aviaco and were inherited from September 1999.
Iberia was for some time interested in the B717 but never ordered one. Aviaco in fact was named in the mid-90ties as a potential costumer for the MD-95 (B717) as a replacement for their DC-9´s.
Ibeia was once a very loyal costumer of McDonnell Douglas and was always happy with the products. In fact Iberia was the first airline in europe to put the DC-9-30 into service in mid-1967 and the DC-9 flew until 2001!
It´s interesting to see that the MD-87 offers more space for each passenger than Iberia´s A139/320/321.
The capacity of the MD-88 was reduced from the 155 seats offered by Aviaco to 150 seats (same as the A320 at Iberia), whereas the MD-87 is configured for 109 passengers each.
It would hav been “normal” at Iberia regarding their traditional thinking to operate the MD-80 for a much longer time than officially claimed after ordering more Airbusses and for the first time the A318.
The MD-80 is no longer the quietest aircraft but the design and concept of McDonnell Douglas is often unterestimated. The MD-80 is very economical to operate and in the case of Iberia there are no costs of paying for them anymore.
The MD-80 is in all variants a derivative of the wonderful DC-9 and so the costs are much lower.
So many people don´t like to hear it but the A319 and much more the A318 are smaller derivates of the A320 with alle the negative effects. So the A318 is not very good for shorthaul-routes. The A318´s empty-weight is in fact much more than the empty weight of an MD-80!!!!
And the weight of an aircraft must be considered in the overall operating-costs.
So Iberia would be wise to see the potential of having nearly 40 MD-80´s that are very robust, reliable, economical to operate and some analysts claim that the MD-80 has the best structure of all aircraft in it´s class.
That could be right, simply because it´s a “Douglas”. There are more DC-8´s flying than early A300´s. Douglas-planes are well-known for their robustness and not Boeing or Airbus.
Thank you very much!
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