Ok I lied, this will be my last post in this thread. Anyway, maybe the UK wants to sell the Typhoon to Turkey :rolleyes:

Nahh, that’s Italy’s brief:

Eurofighter group proposes $5 bln work for Turkey’s defense industry

Eurofighter proposes Turkey final assembly, weapons system integration, parts manufacturing and maintenance tasks for over 400 aircraft. The proposal matches rival JSF group’s local work offer of over $4 billion

The four-nation, European Eurofighter consortium that builds the Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jet has proposed a $5 billion industrial participation program to Turkey, a deal that will take effect if Ankara decides to become the group’s fifth partner.

Giovanni Bertolone, chief executive officer for Alenia Aeronautica, the Italian partners of the Eurofighter group that promotes the fighter in Turkey, said that the proposal involves the final assembly of the entire program beginning with the manufacture of aircraft for Turkey. An Alenia official said that the assembly work would involve about 100 aircraft for the Turkish Air Force plus over 300 aircraft the Eurofighter group hopes to sell to other buyers.

The work will also involve the integration of weapons systems, production of parts including carbon fiber as well as maintenance and support for the fighter jets.

“This is a comprehensive proposal presently in the process of deep discussions (with the Turkish authorities),” Bertolone told reporters in Florence. “Our impression is that the SSM [Turkey’s defense procurement office] are favorable to this industrial participation proposal.”

If it went ahead, Bertolone said, the proposal will allow the Turkish Air Force to gain “operational independence” — the ability to autonomously maintain its fighter fleet. “It is our opinion that Turkey’s local industry is well-developed, and prepared for ambitious hi-tech tasks,” Bertolone said. “Turkey qualifies to emerge as the operational support center for the Typhoon.”

He said if Turkey became the group’s fifth partner, it would be tasked with promoting the fighter in “countries with which it has friendly relations,” like Pakistan and the United Arab Emirates. “The Eurofighter consortium believes that Turkey, with its advanced aviation industry, fulfils all the requirements to become a partner of the group,” Bertolone said. Partnership in the group, he said, would mean having access to source codes and other critical technology.

Asked if he agreed that Ankara would be discouraged from joining the European partnership if Turkey faced major problems in its accession talks with the European Union later this year, Bertolone said that although political unity was one of the essential ingredients of the idea to build a European fighter, “politics should not mask the industrial, military and technological benefits of the program.” “Let’s be optimistic,” he said. “Europe’s history is full of examples that illustrate political unity went parallel to cooperation in aviation.”

Earlier this year, Turkey launched a competition for the procurement of 120 new generation fighters. Recently, Eurofighter’s cross-Atlantic rival in the contest, the multinational Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) group led by Lockheed Martin — the world’s biggest defense firm — that builds the F-35, proposed a package of over $4 billion for Turkey’s defense industry.

Turkey is a partner of the JSF group, and has invested $175 million for its development phase. Turkey’s top procurement officials have repeatedly said that Turkey will either choose between the F-35 and the Typhoon, or go for a combination of both aircraft to meet its future fighter/strike requirements. For example, Murad Bayar, Turkey’s chief procurement official, has said that by the end of 2006 Turkey will decide “whether to go for the F-35 only, the Eurofighter only, or both.”

Defense analysts view the F-35 as a “perfect striker,” a “future” aircraft designed for mainly air-to-ground missions, and the Typhoon as a solid fighter for mainly air-to-air missions. “Ideally, a country should possess both aircraft if, of course, it has the means to afford them from both a procurement and a maintenance point of view,” a Rome-based defense analyst said. “I am not sure if Turkey’s finances are strong enough to support this idea.” Britain and Italy have decided to keep both aircraft in their fleet.

Last December, the Typhoon became fully operational in the Italian Air Force and has so far gone through over 1,600 flying hours. The first Typhoon had arrived in Italy’s Grosseto air base in April 2005.

A demo flight at the Grosseto base showed that the Typhoon is up and running and defending Italian skies. The Typhoon fleet at Grosseto is ready to take to the air in 15 minutes around the clock. The aircraft are used for air defense, surveillance, training and reconnaissance and surveillance missions. The aircraft will soon be deployed for NATO-led missions in Afghanistan.

The Eurofighter program’s first tranche foresees the manufacturing of 142 aircraft for its four partners: Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain. Its second tranche will cover 236 aircraft for the partner nations plus 18 aircraft for Austria. Recently, the Eurofighter consortium penned a deal with Saudi Arabia for the sale of an unknown number of the Typhoon — industry sources say the deal involves around 100 aircraft.

Eurofighter officials say if Turkey joined the partnership earliest deliveries for the Turkish Air Force could be scheduled for 2010. Analysts say deliveries under the JSF program would not begin before 2014.

“The Typhoon could be a multi-purpose move for the Turks,” the same defense analyst said. “It can be a stop-gap solution, boost the local industry and complete the F-35 for a fully deterrent air force.”

Source: Turkish Daily News, Defense Desk (29th May, 2006)

Stalin once said that quantity is a quality of its own.

The ‘weight of numbers’ theory is something that concerned me during the Cold War, but that I take with a huge pinch of salt ever since my first visits to former WP airfields.

As soon as a year or two after the Wall came down it was obvious to anybody visiting almost every airbase that things were a mess. They don’t just become like that overnight. The depth of muck and bird cr@p on MiGs and Sukhois I’ve seen hidden away in HAS areas didn’t accumulate in just those intervening two or three years. The state of some WP Fishbeds committed to the CFE treaty was just a joke.

Sure, having 1,000+ fighter aircraft on paper is great: but when 300 of those are sitting awaiting regular maintenance and 300 are in need of serious depot-level inspection, suddenly the real numbers aren’t quite so impressive.

I’m happy to listen to anybody who had direct experience in any of the WP air arms during the 1970s and 80s, if they can give us a better idea of the reality than my own perception at the start of the 1990s……

Steve Rush

I’m not sure exactly when the F.1CGs were put up for sale, but there was a notification posted on the Greek Embassy in Washington DC’s website as long as five years ago.

Fantasma might recall better than me who any serious negotiations took place with, but one rumour doing the rounds was that the Czech AF showed interest before they signed the lease for Gripen (to replace their MiG-21MFN inventory).

Steve Rush

how do you find all this info anyways?

If you have a spare half an hour, Berlusconi:

http://www.anao.gov.au/WebSite.nsf/NewAuditReports/CC7AC919FA20EE1ECA25…

Enjoy!

Steve Rush

Latest Ka-52 News That I’ve Seen

Flight Tests Of Ka-52 Heli With Arbalet Radar To Resume Within Two Months

Flight tests of the Ka-52 attack and reconnaissance helicopter fitted with the Arbalet airborne radar will resume in the next two months, a source in the Russian defense industry said Wednesday.

“The Fasotron-NIIR corporation is about to complete laboratory and bench tests of the armament control system designed on the basis of the Arbalet multi-role radar for the Ka-52 Alligator helicopter. Flight tests of the helicopter may resume in April or May,” the source said.

Developers of the system are working to improve its mathematical backing. “As to ground tests, they are progressing ahead of schedule,” he said.

There are two workstreams in the development of the new attack and reconnaissance helicopter with the Arbalet radar – one for foreign customers and the other for the Russian Defense Ministry, the source noted.

Arbalet is a multi-role two-band radar, which considerably enhances a helicopter’s capabilities against mobile and stationary targets. Its high angular resolution is provided by the EHF band. Incoming aircraft, helicopters, missiles, and shells are detected in the UHF band in the all-round surveillance mode.

Arbalet is capable of detecting ground-based targets, such as tanks, at a range of 8-12 km. When operating in the air-to-air mode, the radar is capable of detecting enemy attack aircraft at a range of up to 15 km, and Stinger rockets at a range of up to 5 km.

Arbalet is also capable of detecting ground obstacles, and warning the crew of the terrain relief, which considerably increases the safety of low-level flights, or flights in the alpine terrain.

Source: Interfax-AVN (29th March, 2006)

Before anybody gets too excited over the specifics in the opening post to this thread, I would suggest they have a read of some of the other “defence stories” eminating from this particular source.

Steve Rush

Black & white shot of a nice line of Floggers

http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/Assets/1982/Navy/DN-ST-82-10927.JPEG

Keep up the great work, everybody 😀

Steve Rush