Moscow Nightclub Fire Kills 100+

To be honest I’m not sorry to say I’m as jaded and cynical as Arthur is.

People I can relate to I feel loss for, people I know I feel grief for, but, whilst it is sad to hear of any of these tragedies in far flung locations, where do you stop with your ’emotive outpouring’ and how much of it really is pandering to ones own self-image as a good and caring member of the human race?!.

I mean isn’t the plight of murdered IDP’s in Grozny’s camps equally as tragic as Perm or how about the deaths of the 60 South Africans killed in internal unrest in the townships a few months back?. How about the numerous street children of the Philipines that are preyed upon and perish every month utterly unregarded?. Is it only worth your empathy and sympathy when the tragedy is spread over the global media?. Or do you just accept a default position and weep uncontrollably for the whole sorry mess?!.

….or do you sigh, wonder what the hell the sense is in any of it, and crack on with the important things in your life that you can influence.

Maybe crocodile tears is a touch patronising of Arthur but it does seem to fit doesnt it?!.

Moderator Message

This getting a bit too personal now.

Tone it down a bit please, chaps.

Thanks

GA

On Earth.

That planet filled with horrors, and filled even more with self-righteous people who think themselves important if they regularly display some gratuitous comment of sorrow whenever they happen to have taken notice of one horrible incident or the other.

Puh-leeze. Either you actually care about the fire victims in Perm, or drowned people in one of Bangladesh’ three recent sunken ferries, and DO something about it, or continue your life and save your empathy for the people you know and would actually appreciate it.

In the latter case, you’d be making a difference to the world.
Pompously displaying crocodile tears as one of many billion anonymous internet-IDs about some disaster you read about in your favourite monosyllabic tabloid in a distant town in the Urals you hardly ever heard of only embarasses you.

There. My rant for the day 🙂

Almost good Arthur but essentially ill-informed… quite patronising really with the “crocodile tears” assumption. Must do better ! :rolleyes:

On Earth.

That planet filled with horrors, and filled even more with self-righteous people who think themselves important if they regularly display some gratuitous comment of sorrow whenever they happen to have taken notice of one horrible incident or the other.

Puh-leeze. Either you actually care about the fire victims in Perm, or drowned people in one of Bangladesh’ three recent sunken ferries, and DO something about it, or continue your life and save your empathy for the people you know and would actually appreciate it.

In the latter case, you’d be making a difference to the world.
Pompously displaying crocodile tears as one of many billion anonymous internet-IDs about some disaster you read about in your favourite monosyllabic tabloid in a distant town in the Urals you hardly ever heard of only embarasses you.

There. My rant for the day 🙂

What a strange and twisted view you have on the world and compassion. In my view there’s absolutely no need, nor place for, you and your conceited and egocentric views to be aired here when over 100 people have been killed.

May those who died RIP.

Huw

You have my wholehearted agreement that the situation is tragic….

…but Russia isn’t in the EU.

Classed as Europe in the Post Office though. We send parcels regularly.

On Earth.

That planet filled with horrors, and filled even more with self-righteous people who think themselves important if they regularly display some gratuitous comment of sorrow whenever they happen to have taken notice of one horrible incident or the other.

Puh-leeze. Either you actually care about the fire victims in Perm, or drowned people in one of Bangladesh’ three recent sunken ferries, and DO something about it, or continue your life and save your empathy for the people you know and would actually appreciate it.

In the latter case, you’d be making a difference to the world.
Pompously displaying crocodile tears as one of many billion anonymous internet-IDs about some disaster you read about in your favourite monosyllabic tabloid in a distant town in the Urals you hardly ever heard of only embarasses you.

There. My rant for the day 🙂

Let me explain something to you, because you’re clearly a narrow minded, bitter and slightly twisted individual. I work in music; it’s my job and it has been for 15 years, so these kind of things hit me harder than a lot of others because it’s a situation I’m in every working day. I’ve toured Russia once this year and twice last year, so I’ve been in clubs like that a good few times and the fact one person’s stupidity can end everything so suddenly scares me. You say do something; I do on every single concert because I try look for risks other people have missed, even if it isn’t my job to do that, so take your ignorance and petty assumptions of “anonymity” elsewhere because I can say with total 100% certainty, you have absolutely no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

Paul

What planet are you on? :confused:
l

On Earth.

That planet filled with horrors, and filled even more with self-righteous people who think themselves important if they regularly display some gratuitous comment of sorrow whenever they happen to have taken notice of one horrible incident or the other.

Puh-leeze. Either you actually care about the fire victims in Perm, or drowned people in one of Bangladesh’ three recent sunken ferries, and DO something about it, or continue your life and save your empathy for the people you know and would actually appreciate it.

In the latter case, you’d be making a difference to the world.
Pompously displaying crocodile tears as one of many billion anonymous internet-IDs about some disaster you read about in your favourite monosyllabic tabloid in a distant town in the Urals you hardly ever heard of only embarasses you.

There. My rant for the day 🙂

One that doesnt have many crocodile tears in it – you would hazard a guess!

Yep. Being correct, and all that. I’ll leave the crocodile tears for you guys.

No disrespect of course to the flocks of bereaved who visit this forum to find comfort and solace for the loss of their beloved ones…

What planet are you on? :confused:

Paul

I am very familiar with Perm. Even from when it was Molatov.
I have friends there teaching at the Uni. and two secret research establishments. They have sons and daughters of clubbing age. I’m frantically awaiting Emails / phone calls.

As for the safety “Rules” for such things, there are very very few in Russia.

The report I initially read said Moscow, but is that really all you have to say? You dropped into a thread like purely this to say that? :confused:

Paul

Yep. Being correct, and all that. I’ll leave the crocodile tears for you guys.

No disrespect of course to the flocks of bereaved who visit this forum to find comfort and solace for the loss of their beloved ones…

. As is always the case with such disasters, it could have been prevented by either the club owners or the tour manager seeing the potential for things to go wrong, but sadly neither did. It’s probably a similar case with this recent tragedy, hence my original point asking when will we ever learn? 🙁

Paul

I think it’s what those of us in the ‘entertainment’ businesses would call a “risk assessment” Paul. Something sadly lacking in certain countries.

It should have been illegal to use indoor fireworks, then the 112 nightclub victims in Perm would have been alive.

It’s true they’d still be alive but I don’t really think it’s a case of using pyros indoors being legal or illegal; it’s more that they should be used sensibly. I’ve done hundreds of gigs both indoors and out using gerbs (the ‘shower of sparks’ type pyros you commonly see) and they’ve been perfectly safe. The problem occurs when people don’t consider every possible outcome and just proceed without thinking. Great White’s tour manager, who fired the pyros that caused The Station fire 6 years ago didn’t in any way intend for 100 people to die that night, but ultimately that’s exactly what happened because for whatever reason he didn’t act in a safe and responsible way. Had he spent the time to check the sound proofing materials at the back of the stage he’d have seen the potential for disaster, but the nightclub owners are also partly to blame for using such flammable materials in a venue full of people. As is always the case with such disasters, it could have been prevented by either the club owners or the tour manager seeing the potential for things to go wrong, but sadly neither did. It’s probably a similar case with this recent tragedy, hence my original point asking when will we ever learn? 🙁

Paul

It should have been illegal to use indoor fireworks, then the 112 nightclub victims in Perm would have been alive.

I get the impression some of them weren’t strictly for ‘indoor’ use…

It should have been illegal to use indoor fireworks, then the 112 nightclub victims in Perm would have been alive.

Euhh… Perm isn’t really Moscow. I know it’s only a negligable 1150 kilometres, but it isn’t even considered a suburb.

The report I initially read said Moscow, but is that really all you have to say? You dropped into a thread like purely this to say that? :confused:

Paul

Another tragic loss of innocents , as we in the UK know also on occasions , as mentioned in a previous post ‘Bradford FC Stadium and there was The London Euston underground station fire , a Bingo arcade complex in Blackpool , ‘Woolworths’ Store in Manchester , The Petrol Dump off the M1 recently , and only recently the Housing complex in south
London , are only a few that come to mind , Its a case of planning your escape as a second nature whenever you go into any public building “where’s the fire exit , if the lights go out what’s my escape route ! ,many of us shop at those huge shopping Malls the way out is bad enough normally but in smoke and emergency lighting with hundreds of people struggling for any exit , a nightmare scenario ….
Prayers and thoughts to those hundred or so Families that will have the worst Christmas of their lives .

The entire situastion is absurd, they’ve seen it before and still thought they could handle it. Gross stupidity at work. I’ve spent the last few years in my job travelling round these provences, and as much as I feel enlightened by my cultural exhanges, I still wonder WTF is going in in certain modern EU regions ?

You have my wholehearted agreement that the situation is tragic….

…but Russia isn’t in the EU.

Euhh… Perm isn’t really Moscow. I know it’s only a negligable 1150 kilometres, but it isn’t even considered a suburb.

The Bradford City football fire footage of 1985 is equally shocking for the same reasons. Incredible just how quickly a tiny fire became a major inferno !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EpPgsR2U7s&feature=related

Sure is frightening! RIP dear Russian friends.:(