Afghanistan elections

Hehehehe… the Afghan people are tough… the weak ones were killed… either by the Soviets in the 80s or the British 3 times before.

I think the elections were great… even I voted 3 times… and I don’t normally bother… :diablo:

Anybody who knows anything about the region, minus the Indians, knows that the Talibans never left afghanistan nor were they defeated per se or dealt at least what would constitute a conventional military defeat. They just took off their black turbans (trade mark of the Talibans) and blended back into the population.

All the smoking out of the cave rhetoric as well as the precision guided munition raining down on the archaicaly armed talibans and the B-52 being called in by the spec forces to flush out unusually stiffer resistance ended up mostly targeting wedding parties, fleeing civilians and in worst cases Afghans settling their personal scores and the noble americans all too giddy in their enthusiasm to avenge the murder of 3000 of their compatriots, righteously obliging. In very few instances were the Talibans on the recieving end of the american wrath.

Fact of the matter is that the real power is wielded by the warlords; Dostum, Ismail Khan, Masood’s protege Fahim and his co-hort Qanooni and all the rest of ex-commie NA lot would not allow a relative new comer and oil company prospector Karzai to attain any meaningful control in the long term. They had after the ouster of Taliban temporarily yield and will continue to do so until the situation is right for their traditional and long term benefactors in Russia, Iran and India to exploit for their benefit. Meanwhile look for opium production to progressively rise and Karzai to continue in his innocuous role as the mayor of Kabul.

you talk as if you are a remnant of those talibs….

been there…(afghanistan)
done that…..(took turban off & blended with local population)

Anybody who knows anything about the region, minus the Indians, knows that the Talibans never left afghanistan nor were they defeated per se or dealt at least what would constitute a conventional military defeat. They just took off their black turbans (trade mark of the Talibans) and blended back into the population.

All the smoking out of the cave rhetoric as well as the precision guided munition raining down on the archaicaly armed talibans and the B-52 being called in by the spec forces to flush out unusually stiffer resistance ended up mostly targeting wedding parties, fleeing civilians and in worst cases Afghans settling their personal scores and the noble americans all too giddy in their enthusiasm to avenge the murder of 3000 of their compatriots, righteously obliging. In very few instances were the Talibans on the recieving end of the american wrath.

Fact of the matter is that the real power is wielded by the warlords; Dostum, Ismail Khan, Masood’s protege Fahim and his co-hort Qanooni and all the rest of ex-commie NA lot would not allow a relative new comer and oil company prospector Karzai to attain any meaningful control in the long term. They had after the ouster of Taliban temporarily yield and will continue to do so until the situation is right for their traditional and long term benefactors in Russia, Iran and India to exploit for their benefit. Meanwhile look for opium production to progressively rise and Karzai to continue in his innocuous role as the mayor of Kabul. Also, do expect the inferiority-complex driven Pakistan obsessed Indians to maintain their ranting and raving in threads such as this, designed as a back door in order to return to square one of Indians’ manifesto destiny, their raison d’etre, their infatuation with Pakistan, i.e.

“just wait until the U.S leaves afghanistan…..

hordes and hordes of Al-Qaeda terrorists will return to afghanistan from pakistan which they consider as a safe sanctuary…..”

yeah the its a another sitaution

In Afgahnistan the wold realy fight against the Terrorismus and nearly every country in Europe have Troops there

As usual the snide references to America were quick to appear.

Difficult to tell how much infuence or power the Taliban actually have based on the occasional spotty news reports. I agree with Beistrich, if what he means is that the so called war lords are only on their own side.

Grey Area

“Completely artificial distinction”? With respect to your views on the justification for invasion perhaps, but for many of the more radical conservative groups, the left in general and the Islamic world, I think not. Few of their spokespersons supported the “hunt for murderous criminals”.

With respect to why did the west not show any interest in the plight of the Afghans before 9/11? – a question of vital interests no doubt, but beyond that, would the UNSC and the member nations, have supported a mainly U.S. invasion before 9/11? Look at Iraq.

Is your reference to the fact that the oponents of Karsai are complaining about the election process, stem from a belief that it will somehow reflect poorly on the US, the UN or the west in general?

As this election is a process we all seem to support, why are you only concerned about how the boycott issue is being reported in the U.S. Should the reaction there be different than the one in London or Paris?

Sauron

I think that the situation in Afghnistan is way different from the one in Irak.
Many countries have troops there (we do by the way).
I seems to me that last WE elections were pretty successful for a country almost distroyed and dealing with his FIRST (AFAIK) democratic election.

I’m not suspect to be a fan of GWB administration , but I guess that we can given them the credit of this success; Let’s hope that this countruè will continue on his way to peace and democracy.

Steve

I don’t believe I suggested that Afghanistan would be easy. I did say while it was a good day, that it will be a long road ahead.

Nor did I bring up the issue of the U.S. role. I made replies to comments others made. Comments clearly intended to play down the fact that elections are being held.

Everyone knows who carried the ball in Afghanistan. Everyone knows who pitched in to help and that the credit extends to them as well. However, if this venture fails, will everyone share it the blame?

The election process will be far from perfect and the lossers will carp and complain and blame Karsai and the fact that he is only a pawn of the U.S., but it’s a start.

Regards

Sauron

Not necessarily the case though is it Sauron.

As we are seeing in Iraq removing the regime militarily is the easy part when you have such a strategic overmatch. The hard part is maintaining the peace, ensuring security and rebuilding the confidence of the populace. The US has had a hand in this in Afghanistan certainly but the credit goes round a lot further than just them.

There are always those who want to hog most of the credit for what others have done. 🙁

Sauron

Indeed, it’s the ISAF and not the US who tries to maintain at least some stability in the country. Frankly the outcome of these elections are not that important, more important is that they were able to organise them without too much trouble. If one democratic candidate accusses the other of fraude, that’s one step in the good direction :).

just wait until the U.S leaves afghanistan…..

hordes and hordes of Al-Qaeda terrorists will return to afghanistan from pakistan which they consider as a safe sanctuary…..

The Taliban are back and in some areas they didnt leave. The US have in Afgahnistan not so many Troops, the ISAF is more importent. And yes i hope the EU/Nato send more Troops to Afgahnistan to hold only this 2 citys (and maybe more).

Did you say something then, Sauron?.

Hard to see because of all those red herrings………. :dev2:

As usual the snide references to America were quick to appear.

Difficult to tell how much infuence or power the Taliban actually have based on the occasional spotty news reports. I agree with Beistrich, if what he means is that the so called war lords are only on their own side.

Grey Area

“Completely artificial distinction”? With respect to your views on the justification for invasion perhaps, but for many of the more radical conservative groups, the left in general and the Islamic world, I think not. Few of their spokespersons supported the “hunt for murderous criminals”.

With respect to why did the west not show any interest in the plight of the Afghans before 9/11? – a question of vital interests no doubt, but beyond that, would the UNSC and the member nations, have supported a mainly U.S. invasion before 9/11? Look at Iraq.

Is your reference to the fact that the oponents of Karsai are complaining about the election process, stem from a belief that it will somehow reflect poorly on the US, the UN or the west in general?

As this election is a process we all seem to support, why are you only concerned about how the boycott issue is being reported in the U.S. Should the reaction there be different than the one in London or Paris?

Sauron

Ooooooo!!! Best nuke everyone with a beard then, just to be on the safe side!!! :diablo:

😀
There are still humans. But its no suprise that you cant kill small groups in mountains with daisy cutter and helfire. And there are still the warlords, not on the site of the Taliban, USA, ISAF or Karsai, they are only on there own site.

But many people in afgahnistan have vote and two citys are unter the Controll of the ISAF. Better as the many years before

just wait until the U.S leaves afghanistan…..

hordes and hordes of Al-Qaeda terrorists will return to afghanistan from pakistan which they consider as a safe sanctuary…..

THIS IS TEH UK

they survived the Bunker busters, daisy cutters, PREDATOR fired hellfires ?? 😀

and most of all, they survived the wrath of the AMERICAN nation ?? 😮

MAN, what are these people made of ??? 😮

😀
There are still humans. But its no suprise that you cant kill small groups in mountains with daisy cutter and helfire. And there are still the warlords, not on the site of the Taliban, USA, ISAF or Karsai, they are only on there own site.

But many people in afgahnistan have vote and two citys are unter the Controll of the ISAF. Better as the many years before

In a word, yes.

Carpet-bombing doesn’t usually work all that well in mountainous regions.

they survived the Bunker busters, daisy cutters, PREDATOR fired hellfires ?? 😀

and most of all, they survived the wrath of the AMERICAN nation ?? 😮

MAN, what are these people made of ??? 😮

In a word, yes.

Carpet-bombing doesn’t usually work all that well in mountainous regions.

I wonder how well the Taliban did, considering their support of womans rights and education, tolerance of homosexuals, Jews, free speech, non-Islamic religions, literature, music, kite flying, etc., not to mention the effort they made to promote justice, healthcare, land reform and urban renewal? 😀
Sauron

😀 the talibs did survive the carpet bombing ?? 😀 😮

A completely artificial distinction, Sauron, bearing but little relation to the reality of the situation.

The invasion of Afghanistan was a hunt for murderous criminals – no sensible person could think otherwise.

Having said that, why was no-one in the West interested in easing the plight of the Afghans groaning under the Taliban yoke before the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon?