Calais, migrants and everything related (Merged thread)

That is where their skills as doctors, surgeons, and engineers are best deployed, in the service of the country that educated them and now needs their energies.

With all the energies in the world I’m not sure you would be able to do too stellar a job whilst half-starved, with no resources to work with and no pay, in a corrupt society where tribal feudalism is passed off as governance. An engineer needs materials, plans, some form of management whilst a doctor needs sanitary conditions, medicines and some form of management. You are suggesting that the Calais mob simply **** off back to their home country (I doubt there is a return network to heist them back over the borders they just crossed) in a bold philanthropic move. Very noble but somehow I cannot see you in that position, toiling away in the bush whilst dodging blows from a blunt machete.

Extending statement to absurdity is a pretty weak discussion tactic. You can usually do a (little) bit better.

A lot of their countries are currently battlegrounds. It’s pretty hard to show entrepreneurial or professional flair under such circumstances.

Moggy

‘battlegrounds’ are precisely where they need to be. That is where their skills as doctors, surgeons, and engineers are best deployed, in the service of the country that educated them and now needs their energies.

Here’s an article referencing population decline in Europe – not projected, but actual decline.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/31/how-the-worlds-populations-are-changing-in-one-map/

Now, that may not apply specifically to the situation in the UK – but I wonder if our population would be rising if we relied solely on the indigenous (3rd generation and older) population to propagate it. I suspect not.

We must be careful not to make assumptions about those in Calais waiting for their chance. They are intelligent enough to get out of the situation they are in – there is every chance that a good proportion of those people would add something to the country, rather than take. I am hugely wary of the line the press wish us to believe.

Can I just say I’m not greatly impressed by some of the views expressed above. Too Daily Mail / Express.

You’ve only just noticed this trend within the General Discussion clique? Time to pop down to Spec Savers, Moggy.

Thank you. It was nothing 🙂

Moggy

No, i’m suggesting we start projecting and planning our future population size, factor in the indigenous birthrate as much as possible, and have a strict immigration quota in future based on sustainable figures, skills shortages etc. I fully get your point about migrants being skilled, and we should welcome them when we have need of those skills. But I’m afraid we already have a surplus of unskilled people here, we don’t need to be bolstering their ranks.

I would not suggest for a second that we start deporting people. Well, as you mentioned before, I would be happy to take citizenship away from immigrants who actively dislike our country, and giving it to someone who wants to come here and better themselves and the country.

Those geriatrics have done their part. Well, some have 😀

So how are you suggesting we reduce the population?

Might it not be better to have young, strong men who can build houses and roads rather than geriatrics who moan about these problems on fora and do nothing constructive?

Moggy

That’s a good article. I fully acknowledge the vital role in which migrants play in our country, with of course the added benefits of multiculturalism (and the range of different foods it has brought here 😀 )

But the signs are all around that we are already badly overcrowded. The roads in this country are a nightmare, property is unaffordable to most and our public services can’t cope. What is the answer? Build all over our countryside? No thought is being given to the sustainability of these huge increases in our population. When we already suffer one of the highest population densities in the world, why should we have to take more? France especially has a much lower population density than us, why can’t they give these people homes?

Eventually, we will sink under the weight of our own generosity.

Some light reading for you.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2012/12/ugandan-asians-are-part-of-britains-secret-weapon-for-success/

As to your question on the population limit – we are well beyond the number where we could ever feed ourselves, just as we were in 1939. However I would refer you to the quote from the Migration Observatory in Post #21?

“We cannot base major policy decisions on a finger-in-the-air decision to aim for one round number or another. Policy needs to be based on evidence. At this stage there simply isn’t enough to even debate what is at stake.”

Moggy

Why is the term ‘unskilled labour’ being assumed here? The few I have heard interviewed included a dentist and an electronics engineer.

Which begs the question; why aren’t they using the proper channels? Surely highly skilled people have no issue getting working Visas? And why should they get priority over people from all over the world who go through the considerable effort of the legitimate visa system?

We went through all this years ago when the Asians were kicked out of Uganda. They have by and large integrated into our society, and are economic drivers, not a cost on the state.

The prison system statistics based on ethnicity and religion suggest all is not as well as it seems…

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCgQFjABahUKEwj2gYTUsJDHAhWUB9sKHRFsD74&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.uk%2Fbriefing-papers%2Fsn04334.pdf&ei=ui_BVfa8BJSP7AaR2L3wCw&usg=AFQjCNFc5woMqfEk6pJKE2rqLrXlLM5oYg&sig2=IXQnty-OIyV62gB2tclrqQ&bvm=bv.99261572,d.ZGU

The main problem is sustainability. We are not capable of feeding everyone who lives here as it is, we are destroying our environment and increasing the numbers of people living here will only make things worse. What is the limit to our population? 75 million? 100 million? 150 million? because unless we start indiscriminately deporting people, that is what will happen eventually going by current trends.

Extending statement to absurdity is a pretty weak discussion tactic. You can usually do a (little) bit better.

A lot of their countries are currently battlegrounds. It’s pretty hard to show entrepreneurial or professional flair under such circumstances.

Moggy

Why is the term ‘unskilled labour’ being assumed here? The few I have heard interviewed included a dentist and an electronics engineer.

We went through all this years ago when the Asians were kicked out of Uganda. They have by and large integrated into our society, and are economic drivers, not a cost on the state.

Moggy

Exactly. They are all professionals we are told by the liberal elite. Any reasonable person would have thought that with that level of expertise they should be contributing to building their country of origin.

Moggs, I don’t rely on what I see in Newspapers, however, I do believe my eyes, looking at all the queues of HGVs and folks backed up for mile upon mile on T.V. who are waiting to get back to the U.K. or who are waiting to go on their holidays. No doubt the damage to us will only be realised when due to a shortage of food,the prices will get jacked up due to supply and demand. Bit late then ennit?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Re 20

The version I heard, was 8 billion standing room only on the Isle of Wight.

Population decline ? All that I’ve read points in the opposite direction. With the newcomer population hardly able to believe they’re being paid to propagate.

Not so much ‘the people waiting to get in’ as the people already here.

Why is the term ‘unskilled labour’ being assumed here? The few I have heard interviewed included a dentist and an electronics engineer.

We went through all this years ago when the Asians were kicked out of Uganda. They have by and large integrated into our society, and are economic drivers, not a cost on the state.

Moggy

Over supply? Listen to the employers who say the locals will not take the jobs!

Because the wages are being suppressed! It’s very basic supply and demand. The demand for labour would be there, but because of the lack of supply, the price increases. In this instance, wages.

Mass immigration is tolerated for the benefit of the tories and the red tories mates in the city, exploiting workers.

Over supply? Listen to the employers who say the locals will not take the jobs!

Please wipe the spittle off your screen, you’ve been getting over excited and started making obvious mistakes again. And lots of these migrants work in low paid positions such as cleaners or crop pickers – the kind of jobs which many unemployed Britons still regard as being beneath them.

That ISN’T a good thing. The oversupply of unskilled labour is suppressing wages, which would otherwise have to increase to a level that people would find attractive.

Do you beiieve that these millions or, any significant percentage, will be economically productive ?

They should be because because if the continuous reports from our liberal elites are to be believed, these economic migrants are all either doctors or engineers or mathematicians or working in some worthwhile profession who are all ready, willing and able to teach the ignorant Brits how to run their country.

Please wipe the spittle off your screen, you’ve been getting over excited and started making obvious mistakes again. And lots of these migrants work in low paid positions such as cleaners or crop pickers – the kind of jobs which many unemployed Britons still regard as being beneath them.

The migrants that I’ve heard being interviewed couldn’t speak English but, to a man, know their way to the nearest benefits office.

I’m sure that is exactly how it is. Not something you wished to happen in every interview you’ve heard. And everyone else has heard exactly the same thing in interviews with migrants too.
Just one question: what languages do you speak or understand so that you know that that is what they are saying?[/dripping-sarcasm]

“No credible evidence has yet been published to show why a UK population of 70 million is preferable to a population limit of 50, 60 or 80million – or any other number,” says the Migration Observatory think-tank based at Oxford University.

“We cannot base major policy decisions on a finger-in-the-air decision to aim for one round number or another. Policy needs to be based on evidence. At this stage there simply isn’t enough to even debate what is at stake.”

So do we want a country full of old people, or one with an injection of the sort of young, risk-taking individuals with the determination and guts to set out on a mammoth and dangerous journey to arrive at a country they want to be part of?

Here’s a thought. Lots of ‘British’ asians want to go and fight in the Middle East. How about we let them? Each handing over his citizenship to one of the guys currently in Calais?

One out, one in.

Moggy