Calais, migrants and everything related (Merged thread)

Jim,

Yes, you have a point there. No doubt at all.

John,

I choose not to believe everything I read and hear, as there is always some form of spin on it. I admit I don’t know enough about this subject, but do know enough to realise I am being lied to, somewhere.

Gullible? Naive? Not a bit of it.

Yes I am old but I would have the same opinion when I was young. Moggy is starting to moan as he is now 66(as AAIB quoted him as 65 when he crashed his flying mobility scooter):D

Come on Jim he has effed off to avoid the fall out from Kids Company.

I’m astounded at the level of naivety and gullibility shown not only by some on this forum but, also by spokesmen and women representing the various Government Agencies charged with attempting to control and manage the never ending free-for-all at our borders.

If it wasn’t so serious it would be almost touching. It is more than obvious, judged by the comments of most of those interviewed on television, that these intended migrants are economic migrants who have been led to believe that Britain is an El Dorado who, when they arrive will be given pocketfuls of cash and a place to live.

That is what I have heard during interview, many more times than I can count. They are direct and their honesty is commendable to the point of not concealing their wish to bring their family into the country.

Everyone who feels strongly about this subject and who isn’t one of Moggies moaning geriatrics, should write strongly worded protest letters to their MP for onward transmission to the Prime Minister, letting him know, using very polite but direct language, that enough is enough.

Bruce. It matters not a jot, whichever Party is in Government, we will never, IMHO ever know the true figures, because such a **** up has been made by Parties past and present, that it would mean them admitting a complete failure of their dealing with a situation that has clearly got out of their control.That’s why they gave amnesty to the 145.000 that got “Lost” in the system.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

But it wasn’t (quite) my meaning.

My point is that we are being fed a line – by the press, and by the right leaning government. We don’t actually know why they are looking for asylum here, or what they will do if they get it. Thus, whether they are using the system to their advantage is unknown.

I need more facts please.

Turning their backs on the reality of what’s happening here, and clearing off on holiday.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

A more thoughtful and long term solution is required. This is sadly not something that the populace or those elected to represent the populace are very good at however.

Which is…

Jim, Again, we make huge assumptions about people we know nothing about. Not every person coming to this country is looking for handouts, though clearly some are.

This is exactly my point Bruce, None of us would house, feed any person within our household without knowing 100% about them, so what’s the difference when they get here one way or the other, and are allowed to stop here, when we know sod all about them?. They know, and work the system to their advantage.I can realise now, what Enoch Powel stated many years ago, and his words may just come back, and bite us in the Ar*se.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

You took those very words out of my mouth Tony………:D

Jim.
Lincoln .7

As Bruce says we really have such limited information. But an interesting exercise to get a better feel for the problem would be to spend six months or so in Somalia or the Sudan or Libya or Syria and then a further few months or a year in transit to Calais.

Might be an eye opener!:)

May I suggest to all those on here, who think these migrants SHOULD be allowed in, that they take in just one migrant into their OWN family, feed them, give them money to spend, and treat them as if they were family. C’mon, hold up your hand, and lets see how many would do this.Oh, and without any help from the Government.
Jim
Lincoln .7

Jim, Again, we make huge assumptions about people we know nothing about. Not every person coming to this country is looking for handouts, though clearly some are.

That, and that almost alone, is the prime inducement.

Well John,

That is what the press would have us believe. Its an easy position to take as well – trying to barge in via the tunnel, and then going to ground for a few months, before popping up and demanding welfare.

However, if (and I have no idea of the veracity of this), they are telecoms engineers, doctors and dentists, or at least some of them are, what would be the benefit to them of doing so?

There is more to all of this than meets the eye, and more than we are being told as well.

With regard to numbers – there is no need to set a limit as such – but that isn’t the same as open borders. Each case must be decided on its merits, and again, I don’t entirely understand the reasons for trying to gain entry via the tunnel, if at least some of them have a reasonable case to make.

Anyone have any data to hand regarding how many successful applications have been made by people who have initially gained entry illegally? How many are deported? Of those who have been admitted, how many are living on welfare payments? How many have jobs? Oh, and how many are living here illegally, and do NOT have access to welfare?

Unless we have that, our discussions do no more than feed stereotypes, and separate us along political divides.

I would employ a fleet of Trojan trucks, I would mix the vehicles in the queues where they attempt to board in Calais and when they have a good load of immigrants onboard I would swing them around and drive them to the furthest point from Calais in France and offload them.

May I suggest to all those on here, who think these migrants SHOULD be allowed in, that they take in just one migrant into their OWN family, feed them, give them money to spend, and treat them as if they were family. C’mon, hold up your hand, and lets see how many would do this.Oh, and without any help from the Government.
Jim
Lincoln .7

There’s nothing like ‘a sinner that repenteth’ – not quite the quote i’m looking for but, it will, in the circumstances do.

“because they’ve heard we have golden pavements”

That, and that almost alone, is the prime inducement.

So Bruce, whats the answer ? Limited numbers, in which case how many ? Or, a permanently open door ?

Does that mean we have an obligation to accept everyone who comes here? How many of these guys, who purposefully destroy their passports and mutilate (for want of a better word) their own finger tips to avoid being traced are criminals and extremists? Perhaps even war criminals.

I’m not saying that all, or even a majority of these migrants are any of those things, but surely this is why we must not allow people to just turn up and expect entry.

That, of course is the rub.

Desperation leads people to do things that they wouldn’t contemplate in different situations.

The major issue to me is that people are crossing multiple countries specifically to come to the UK. There should be a worldwide mechanism for dealing with those who, for reasons of hardship, war or abuse, wish to move from their country of birth. There is, of course, so one ask to ask why such people wish to circumvent it.

As I said, I have no issue with people coming tot his country who want to better themselves, or wish to bring something to our society. IF they wish to come to the UK purely because they have heard we have golden pavements, then that is another thing entirely.

With all the energies in the world I’m not sure you would be able to do too stellar a job whilst half-starved, with no resources to work with and no pay, in a corrupt society where tribal feudalism is passed off as governance. An engineer needs materials, plans, some form of management whilst a doctor needs sanitary conditions, medicines and some form of management. You are suggesting that the Calais mob simply **** off back to their home country (I doubt there is a return network to heist them back over the borders they just crossed) in a bold philanthropic move. Very noble but somehow I cannot see you in that position, toiling away in the bush whilst dodging blows from a blunt machete.

Yes, I now see the error of my ways. All is now clear. We must dismantle the frontiers. Sweep the barriers to one side. Put out the ‘welcome’ mats. Pull ’em in, kicking and screaming while stuffing benefit cash down their throats. Room for all aboard the Great British Bonanza. That will immediately take care of the many problems you mention.

Apart from the question of who pays for all this indulgence there’s not a lot to worry about – is there ?

Just the question of total numbers which, I note, everyone so far has ducked

Here’s a different slant on the issue; What would you do in their position? (That’s not aimed specifically at you Moggy, but everyone contributing to this thread)

Not all of these migrants are from war zones. Some are escaping famine, many others just looking for opportunities because none exist at home.

Does that mean we have an obligation to accept everyone who comes here? How many of these guys, who purposefully destroy their passports and mutilate (for want of a better word) their own finger tips to avoid being traced are criminals and extremists? Perhaps even war criminals.

I’m not saying that all, or even a majority of these migrants are any of those things, but surely this is why we must not allow people to just turn up and expect entry.

Whilst risking some awful death because their parents believed in the wrong imaginary friend.

Moggy