Down the Crapper.

I couldn’t agree more with your comments about education.

I remain unconvinced that we are actually a more tolerant society. I think we are angrier and intolerant about many things – just different ones that’s all. There was certainly more mutual respect and consideration then. Homophobia as we understand it didn’t really exist because homosexuality was a criminal offence, so few people were aware of it and those that were regarded “queers” as just that or “nancy boys” but I don’t think there was revulsion. The Wildeblood case brought everything to the public gaze for the first time and of course was the touch paper for the changing attitudes towards homosexuality over the following decades. And of course homosexuals were, thankfully, not “gay”, then. The effeminate music hall comedian, now called “camp” has been laughed at and loved for decades.

How to put the Great back into Britain? If that means going back to an imagined golden age of, say, 1955, here are my impressions:

Good:

Children could get a very good education anywhere – public, grammar or secondary modern school, because everyone was taught to read, write and had a sound understanding of grammar. All schools had teachers who had a thorough grounding in what they were teaching. Now, because of a de-emphasis on grammar since about 1970, that is no longer the case. Children are being taught by semi-literate teachers, and no-one is going to win.

Bad:

Racism and homophobia were rife in the 1950s. We now live in a much more tolerant society.

On balance, I’d rather have Britain as it is now.

Or Chas, back to “The life of Bwyan”,
Always look on the bright side of life, :D:D

Jim.
Lincoln .7

All roads lead back to Monty Python’s Yorkshiremen!!;)

Being law-abiding, we had to wait for Mum to buy a 2d packet of Polos, then we all sat round her tongue.

SNOB, Never could stand those who bragged just how well off they were. 😀

Jim.
Lincoln .7

took turns, 15 mins at a time standing around the Central Heating, a Candle one of us had nicked from a shop,

Being law-abiding, we had to wait for Mum to buy a 2d packet of Polos, then we all sat round her tongue.

Hah! How true….and scraping the ice off the inside of the bedroom window on Winter’s mornings!

It was so freezing cold in our house when I was young, we slid down the stairs on a sheet of ice, the steps were covered totally, took turns, 15 mins at a time standing around the Central Heating, a Candle one of us had nicked from a shop,For Sunday dinner, we has a poached egg on toast, ……….between 6 of us, Oh, yep, they were the good ole days.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

This time next year Rodders, we will be Millionairs.:D

Jim

The problem is indoor toilets – not having to trot down the garden at 2 o’clock on a cold January morning has bred a nation of wimps (using a chamber pot was cheating, by the way).

I know you just won’t believe it, but one day, whilst visiting a house to renew a Shotgun Certificate, I wanted to Pee (Thank God for tenner Ladies now,:highly_amused:) and asked if I could use their toilet, I was told it was down the bottom of the garden, rushing to the wooden privvy, I opened the door.
Now others I have seen, were no more than a fabricated plank of wood, over a hole, most of them had two seating positions, no doubt if you wanted to talk to the wife whilst having a motion together, this one however had THREE seats/holes, now I wonder why?.Why would 3 folks want or need to share the same WC all at the same time?.
Ygotta laugh, how times have changed.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Jim

The problem is indoor toilets – not having to trot down the garden at 2 o’clock on a cold January morning has bred a nation of wimps (using a chamber pot was cheating, by the way).

So were you poor and used squares of newspaper on a nail or have the luxury of Jeyes,Bronco or Izal toilet paper? I swear that stuff was created by a masochist!

Hah! How true….and scraping the ice off the inside of the bedroom window on Winter’s mornings!

I’m glad I live now and not in an earlier time. There is so much Great still in Great Britain and so much that has been added to. As a kid in the 70’s/80’s I was probably 13 before my first pizza…now I can cook and eat Thai, Mexican etc from ingredients or kits for example. I can be entertained 24 hours a day with a wide range of films and television programmes catering to all tastes. I can discuss my passions with like-minded individuals around the world at any time. I can take more photographs than I ever could before, at better quality and with a liveliness I couldn’t have experienced on prints. I can shoot a ten second film of my kids and have it viewed by their grandparents abroad in minutes. I can call family abroad for low cost. I can eat well, live well, have social and health back up if things go wrong. I can contact anyone at any time with ease. Your nostalgic utopia is rose-tinted i’m afraid. Tell me how good the winter of discontent was and the lower life expectancies. Tell me why 80 year olds now act and look like the 60 year olds of yesteryear.

I live such a cosy privileged life. Either side of my owned house and opposite live drug dealers and users, one of whom was seen trying to come through my kitchen window by my daughter and 3 of whom I’ve assisted when they received a slap on the wrists with a machete one night. Mine is a mortgaged house and there’s are also part-funded by me. My cars get damaged regularly and the anti social behaviour is constant but my friends and family and other people I know or meet are as wonderful as at any time in my life. Yesterday I completed a year in my new job. This is working with people who have fallen by the wayside so to speak. I have an empathy for these people who I help to keep secure. In this year I have dealt with physical and verbal abuse or threats, attempted suicides, attacks (sexual and non-sexual violence), overdoses, self-harm, stabbings, a multiple infanticide, psychosis, trauma, serious injury and illness and utter despair. I’ve also helped people come to terms with some really grim things that have happened in their lives and had some absolutely fascinating conversations about all manner of things, especially drugs. I work sheltering people that most have written off and who I also would have a year ago. And some have defended me, some I would chose to have as friends in other circumstances and every single one of them has still had fine qualities no matter what life has dealt them. You know what? They are no different to me, you or anyone else; we can all get our arses kicked and end up clinging to the bottom rung.

I grew up in a village, I knew everyone and spoke with them. I now live in a town and rarely choose to speak to anyone. I am just content to let the world spin on its axis and mind its own business.

Jim

The problem is indoor toilets – not having to trot down the garden at 2 o’clock on a cold January morning has bred a nation of wimps (using a chamber pot was cheating, by the way).

I would very much like to hear your take on the topic if you have time to post it.

If I have a take on the subject it is probably that things were never as good as they were made out to be. There may not have been a golden age when Britain was ‘Great’

But back then (and I am not a great many years your junior) we didn’t have the same access to information and the sharing of opinions that we have now.

I hold no great liking for ‘multiculturalism, but we can’t wind the clock back.

Anyway, 100 years ago I’d probably be having a rant that everything was the fault of the incomers from Suffolk?

Moggy

Taking care not to generalise a bunch of different people is key, I think. It is often unfair and inaccurate. It is however fully possible and necessary to discuss immigration in a civilised manner.

Moggy, thankyou for you considered action or lack of it. I would very much like to hear your take on the topic if you have time to post it. Maybe it got me on a bad day and the two people who wound me up were not British born and bred so I ask the forum to excuse me that rant. I am certainly not racist and indeed a comrade of mine who was Fijian saved me from serious injury or death in a situation in NI at great risk to himself, (the details don’t matter apart from the fact I froze like a rabbit) If I say anymore I will either talk myself into further trouble or try and mitigate my previous post.

But we do have a welfare state and it doesn’t work. Our health service is one of the largest employers in the world and that”s for a total population of only 60 million.

A huge part of the problem is people are behaving badly because no one expects/requires them to act properly.
In a welfare state no one has to take too much responsibility. If you mess up, don’t worry….you’ll always have your needs met.
Don’t work, have children you can’t or won’t support/do drugs/vandalism? …don’t worry, the government will fix everything for you.
You’ll also have a choirs of enablers telling you “it’s not your fault….”.

In short, a distressingly large part of society relies on the rest of society not because it HAS to (because of disability or genuine need) but because it’s easier to have society take care of you than for you to take care of yourself.

The way I see it, your arguments might be valid for some people who don’t understand what a welfare state is about (or who couldn’t care less), but I think it’s unfair to say so about every country trying to make it work. A functioning and sustainable welfare state requires work, discipline and a good tax culture, to mention a few things. The government will /should not fix everything for you. It must present clear work incentives to those who are able to work and who ask for welfare, depending on the context.

I don’t know how things are in the UK right now, though. I’ll admit that even a wealthy welfare state has to cope with a number of challenges to make things work over time, but I believe it’s possible. People, societies, countries across the world are different. Perhaps some countries are be better suited to run a welfare state than others, depending on this and that.

I have told it as it is delete me if you must but you are just turning your back on the reality of life ife you do

I read your post, then went back to the garden to think before acting.

The results of that thought are that I will not delete you or your post.

As a piece of self destruction it stands almost unparalleled on these fora. But it you wish to portray yourself to those you interact with here as a sad victim, reduced to indulging in snide little racist jibes (well out of hearing of anyone who would deck you) and think this somehow makes you a shining beacon of honesty and good thinking, who am I to stop you?

You may think you are ‘telling it as it is’.

All the rest of us see is a pitiable and embittered individual dribbling his nasty racist meanderings onto a keyboard.

Moggy
Moderator

But be noted, it needs only one person to complain and your posting, which is close enough to a breach of the CoC, will be removed.

The old adage that rights and responsibilities go hand in hand and are indivisible is one of the basic tenets for a cohesive society. Few people, now, either know or care about their responsibilities and people wonder why our society is so fractured.

My son is studying the London Riots of a few years ago in school and we talked over the causes. Depravation, poverty, lack of jobs etc – I mentioned also the possibility that the folk who started it had little fear of any real punishment for being caught……. there is a “me” and “mine” culture in many areas of the country and everybody knows their “Rights”….. I have a right to park across Paul178’s drive way….. so I will. It seems everybody hides behind their rights, when surely should you wish to hide behind your rights you must first respect and acknowledge everybody elses. And if you do get caught throwing rocks at a police car, you get punished – a prison term or to quote Robert Shaw in The Battle of Britain, “Give ’em a b****y shovel” and make them clear it up.