Electric vehicles

Having read all this about electric vehicles, carbon footprints etc. I can’t wait until we see the first Boeing 747 electric aircraft, or the all electric fighter.

Air to air re-fueling via a 3 pin plug ?. 😀

Jim.

Lincoln .7

Now my own mileage is reduced I have switched from a 50mpg diesel from 2003 to a 28mpg petrol from 2004

Moggy

Ahhhhh, Don’t like Top Gear Moggs?, and changed you economical diesel for a P****

Go On, put everyone out of their misery and tell them what you now drive, and watch them drivell at the mouth in envy.:diablo:
Jim.

Lincoln .7

I doubt that anything we do will have the slightest affect on China, India, Indonesia and to a great extent, Russia. In fact anything we do or should I say, what we are now doing is likely to be highly detrimental to us, without affecting those other huge emerging economies.

Agreed, we don’t have all the answers but common-sense tells us that at least thinking about the environment and moderating some of our behaviour is the right choice when confronted by the possibility of serious damage to our environment. And how are we to influence the developing world if we don’t practice what we preach?

I don’t advocate anything. In the matter of the environment there has been and still is so much contradictory “evidence” and opinion that we mortals have no chance whatsoever of knowing what is best. I take a pragmatic attitude since I doubt that much we do will make s significant global difference since our use or abuse, if you prefer, is massively outweighed by the big developing economies. Our current energy policy is likely to produce energy shortages in a decade or so whatever happens.

But you’re surely not advocating utter disregard for any environmental considerations?

I have offspring and great off-spring but am under no illusion that whatever we think we might be doing to save the planet on their behalf will almost certainly be misplaced and new unknown dangers will supercede those which worry so many now.

…building a new car of any kind causes a huge environmental footprint that is going to take many years to repay the best action would actualy be not to build any new car types and just keep old types running…

Building new cars doesn’t cause as big a carbon-footprint as you would imagine; I did post some figures once but can’t find the thread now.

IIRC a new car causes about the same carbon-footprint in eighteen months motoring as was caused in manufacturing it. As has been said, the graph of through-life carbon-footprint would have a point where we are better-off buying a new car than using an old one. Much depends on the increased efficiency of new cars.

If you say so.

I can’t say I am really that bothered one way or another. I only popped in to correct the fallacy that I knew was such.

This is one more of the good things about having no offspring. You don’t feel inclined to worry about what happens to the earth forty years hence.

Moggy

the biggest problem is these vehicles are baught by the ” must have it now !” latest trend brigade that will replace them when the latest fads arrive

the biggest percentage won’t be that intrested in them second hand

so i can see them having a very short lifespan compared to a comparable fuel vehicle

now bear in mind that a lot of fuel vehicles are not kept long enough to repay thier environmental footprint

it becomes clear that electrics are very ungreen

it takes all the same resources to build them and only the fuel is difrent

but as said ” is it ?? ” as you still have to plug in to a fossil fuel powered power station

if you combined all things i would be willing to bet an electric car would probably be just as bad as a fuel vehicle !!

worse if anything if replacement times were braught into the equasion !!

If you are happy with that, why not.

There is doubtless a point at which the graph crosses and an efficient ‘new’ car overtakes the lifetime cost of the 60s ‘Muscle’ car, but truly trying to identify where that is would be like trying to pin jelly to the ceiling.

Now my own mileage is reduced I have switched from a 50mpg diesel from 2003 to a 28mpg petrol from 2004

Moggy

Edited: CoC Rule 15

even if fuel rises to 15 quid a litre they will still be able to sell vehicles like this to someone somewhere

and the fact is i’d rather run a 60’s 6 litre muscle car than a brand new green vehicle

the reasons are the muscle car would be the greener alternative

the reason is simple

the muscle car has for want of a better description ” payed back its environmental footprint

whereas building a new car of any kind causes a huge environmental footprint that is going to take many years to repay

the best action would actualy be not to build any new car types and just keep old types running with reclaimed spares

at times in my life i have been in a position to buy a new vehicle ( but even before the green bandwagon ) i had the belief of not being wastefull for wastefulls sake and love restoring old things

the odd thing is these green cars will be recycled way before paying back the environmental footprint to make another green car

and the clueless plastic hippies will be walking around shouting from the rooftops ” look at me arn’t i green ! “

yes mate ” very green !”

Somehow the word ‘dinosaur’ springs to mind.

I doubt the last Tyrannosaurus Rex actually knew that he was the end of the line.

Moggy

The new Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT 8 has just been announced in USA , it has a 6.4 litre Hemi engine —-Dont stand a lot of chance do we ???

Is anybody denying that?

But are you aware of the actual ‘green’ cost per mile?

Moggy

Your “green” electric car is still plugged into the likes of the Dracot coal burning power station…. no matter how they make it look green and clean all they do in reality is shift the source of energy production.

Much that is inaccurate and ill-informed has been posted on this thread, in common with any similar thread on fora the internet over.

It won’t make a jots bit of difference in the long run, what will happen will happen, whatever we discuss here.

But where I see something that I know to be factually inaccurate I can’t help mentioning it in passing.

The dedicated Toyota Prius plant in Japan is considerably more environmentally friendly, less carbon emitting than any other Toyota plant (and Toyota have been working seriously on being green for a very much longer time than the other manufacturers.). Zero to landfill also features here, and at an increasing number of other Toyota plants worldwide. Total lifetime environmental costs for Prius, including EOL disposal should be lower than the mean.

Before Prius 1 was launched a special plant was set up to recycle the batteries. Despite over two million Prius being sold since 1997, the last figure I had for batteries that had had to be recycled was in the hundreds. Less than 1,000 certainly.

There is no perfect answer. The future will see a mix of power sources for road transport, each best suited to the task in hand. Just look how small diesels, once the darling of the fuel economy minded are now being ousted by hyper efficient small petrol units to circumvent the NOx and Particulate problems diesels bring with them.

Moggy

quite correct !! but oil goes far further than mereley plastics etc

for each barrel of oil only half is used as fuel the rest is used in the following ( and a lot of these will probably suprise some )

http://www.ranken-energy.com/Products%20from%20Petroleum.htm

I believe I am correct in saying that even if you had a car that didn’t need fuel, it doesn’t mean that portion of oil could be made into other things.

It is the same with all these biofuel flights that Airbus and Boeing are creating a lot of noise about. Where on this planet are you going to grow all this extra fuel crop, enough to support the thousands of flights each day.

The manufacturers are quick to quote range on Batteries –ie: 2-300miles ( Nissan Leaf) But they dont mention Range on a cold winters night with the Head lights/fogs on , the CD player blaring & the heater/climate fan on full tilt & the electric power steering in constant use.tornado64 mentioned , deisel engined recovery truck, out in the middle of nowhere—yep thats going to happen & just when you need to recharge your mobile through the lighter socket!!

so in a nutshell i wholeheartedley promote the electric car to everyone !!

mainly because we would still need oil for practicaly everything around us

but my main considdering factor would be petrol would then become a by product less demand would make it cheaper

leaving it for those that like proper cars and motorcycles !!

and you can bet your life the day your electric car breaks down or runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere ( it never happens near a charging socket !! ) then a good old deisel recovery truck will collect it !!